Thank you very much for the response (most of ya )
Specialy Clipsetuner and Doc - I'm printing all that info out, it's what I need thanks again

aside from your constructive critisim (meaning it has been worth something) Kwanza26, thank you for the info on the 3MZ, this is what i was looking for.

as far as $$ go, no one will prove me that a 3S-GTE will cost me less. I have crunched the numbers with the highest cost expectation for the swap and still, the V6 beats the 3S-GTE by a large margin, concidering getting one and upkeeping it. (supreme costs more than regular btw ) I can find most of the parts localy and thats a big factor for me.

snapshotgt:

...this is a very good point...long term...it looks like the V6 is a better way to go...man tweak, your making me think about this more!!! I'm leaning toward the V6 over 3sgte b/c of tweaks point...lol...well, just will have to think about it more and more!!

Kwanaza:

These types of responses are why (although I don't want to speak for anyone else) I don't sugar coat things. Sorry for the guys that are being singled out... but really... I don't think you guys need anything extra to fantasize about. Know what it takes to do a swap before you go off dreaming about one. Unless of course you have enough money to pay others to do it for you... and in that case... I recant. =]

Responce from me:

Well Kwanza, i don't know why you "singled" me out...i was just commenting on what the doc said...b/c i will be swaping soon (note: i'm not "dreaming about one")...and yes, i will be having the doc do the swap, so you can "recant".

~snapshotgt

p.s. sorry, i did something funny with the reply/quote thing...made my own ^^ lol.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Jan 19, 2006 - 3:17 PM

as for the labour, my "team", as i would like to call it , consists of relatives, friends, and local car enthusiats that are willing to help me out with this one. I will pay for their work, just not at the price of a swap shop. I don't doubt their skill either, most of them have done swaps and custom fabrication. Altho it worries me a little that it's something they have never done, i have confidence in them and myself.

I will be getting my hands dirty, i'm not gonna stand there and watch. I am learning and whatever i don't do, i will make sure i know what has been done and how it was done. As for electrical, this is where I shine, i'm a electrical engineer student and i'm just dying to get my hands on that big pile of wires called "the harness". If I can't do it, Doc is gonna get mail

i could go on about this but it's really not important to this thread so....

anyone else want to chip in their knowlege relating to the v6 (1MZ or 3MZ) swaps?

Thanks

hood clearance is gonna be an issue... unless there is more vertical room in the 6th than the 5th gen... ugly bulge until i can afford a gt-four front end conversion

Sorry for the consecutive posts

i picked this out of celicatech.com

link: Celicatech

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there are 2 major problem that i see with your thinking. 1 is cost. you never know how much something is going to cost, untill its all said and done. the funny thing with car is, that you can do all the planning in the world, and still have unexpected things that happen, that change your budget in a drastic way.

2nd problem i see, is that you are depending on your friends to do this for you. i was thinking the same thing when i did my swap. i talked to a bunch of guys that i know that do all kinds of crazy work on their 11sec, rollcaged DSMs. they all told me the same thing, "hell yeah, bro... we will pop that motor in for you in a weekend! it will be awesome! " . then when the clip go to my garage, i called all of them back and they were nowhere to be found. so, one lesson youll quickly learn (like i did), is that this is YOUR SWAP, your car, and your money. if a few of your buddies come over for the weekend to give you hand, than thats awesome, but it will be you laying under the car, all alone at night, trying to figure out how to finish it. your buddys will head out the door quick when the going gets tough, because its not their car, and not their problem.

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as for reliability.... its foolish for anyone one to expect any motor swap, na, trubo, or v6, to be 110% realible. you are using a motor that came ouf of a car that no one wanted (this goes for the 3sgte as well) you dont know how it was treated, when the oil was changed, or if its blown when you get it. just keep that in mind and know that you will be poping the hood a lot more often then you ever had to do with your stock motor.

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as for the people who think that some of us are bashing you. we are just trying to help you. we know what its really like to do a swap. you always hear people say " oh that one is easy, you just pop that motor in and its done", but thats just hype talk. the reality is that any sawp is a ton of work and a lot of stress.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 19, 2006 - 4:03 PM

it's very true i depend on many in order to accomplish this but i have very good bonds with these people, we always helped each other with whatever in the past. Those people don't say "pop the engin' ina weekend yo", most of them are my relatives and they are decent trusting people, but i do see your point. It's my car, my project, my responsibility regardless what happens.

I certainly don't expect this to be easy, this is the purpose of this discussion, to make it possible. Everything always goes wrong, i know that. I have spent full days, head up side down doing wiring on my car, same goes when i changed my struts, it's that one rusty bolt that f-ed up everything. Note that i did that myself and i didn't have clue how to do it, same when i changed my alternator and when i took the whole front end appart to run some wires. I learn as i go. It's part of the hobby.


as for reliability
after 269000+ kms things start to break, i can't see a swapped engine being much worst. Of course there's always the possibility of getting a bad engine, thats annother point towards the MZ, you can get it localy and often can be seen running. If not, you can always go break the junker's knees if he rips you off.

It's a good thing to list the pros and cons, can never be too prepared

The only thing a man can rely on is what he can and cannot do.

right

i'm still going to attempt it even if i have to do the whole darn thing myself

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well at least you are tinking on the right track now. good luck

at least i always have you guys to help me figure some stuff out so in the worst case i wouldn't be entirely alone

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Jan 19, 2006 - 5:08 PM

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who? the guys who are cheering you on... most of them have never done any major car work. as for the rest of us, we have never put that motor into a car, we wont be able to really help you, youll be on your own... thats what me, kwanza,etc have been trying to say this whole time. thats the price you pay for being the 1st to do something

sorry for being french, i have a hard time to express myself correctly

i meant you guys would be willing to help me figure out a solution to a problem, i didn't necessarly mean you guys would tell me how to do it. you know, give me advice, suggestions etc.... support is what i'm talking about !!

blah, i'm confusing myself with my own words

If this swap does become more practical and i still think it's a good idea - when i gather the funds - i would be paying someone to do the swap for me. I have neither the time nor the patience (although i have the majority of the knowledge) to so the swap on my own - Hence the reason i said IN MY POST that i would be taking it to the dr. , go ahead and "recant" - find someone else to call a daydreamer

i think its good to through some negative opinons in this thread, not only to discourage the weak hearted; but to help brain storm problematic areas with this motor swap.

how heavy is the v6 engine in comparison to the 5afe? Wont the gt tranny gearing waste the low end torque of the v6?

12 hours later and all this pops up, I dont think much else needs to be said here unless its about v6 componets, all this bashing is non-sense, the few people that know about this swap need to speak about it.

I am pretty sure me and tweak have listed just about everything that needs to be said for the most part anyways, any other imput is awsome tho.

As long as you have friends or people with some knowledge to help you, I think you will be fine, I have only done a handfull of swaps and I believe tweak is probley the best for the job, but hence him being 2000 miles away we cant work together. Thanks for all the extra info tweak, and a good business transaction. hopefully we can get our v6's running about the same time, even tho I'd like to lay claim to fame to be the first but we'll see.

DTE

this thread is just the begining

i've copied all the info given here and i will continue to gather as much as i can and share it in a upcoming thread. Of course i will certainly credit who i got that information from

thanks DTE and DOC, you guys ROCK !!!

So I gathered more info today for the mass's. the 1mz is gonna be by far the easyer swap. The wiring wont be to bad as how I look at it but there is one problem the factory tach wont read right no matter what creative wiring you do, unless you get the dash harness from your donor car, so all us v6 guys gonna look foward to aftermarket tachs. Another thing which doesnt reguard you too much but for the 96+ guys we are gonna want a 96-00 motor/wiring harness/ECU only, if 2001 they did some big changes to the OBD system as long with the harness so I wouldent try and mix and match anything. stay'n with the 96-00 OBD2 setup we shall breeze threw emissions, I am unsure about the inspection states tho.

If tweak or I get that last motor mount made, Ill get copy's made soon as possible, and have em out to all who want to attemp this swap.

I think personaly this swap is gonna be the cheap alternative to the 3sgte in the short run, if your looking for over 300whp good luck, but for the reliable DD that makes 200hp this should be fun for the rest of us, anything else comes up let me know. I was gonna keep mine on the low down untill the summer meet but o well.

DTE

how much does this motor make at the wheels and at the crank in stock trim?

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Not sure on the wheels, but at the crank it's between 190 and 210 I think, depending on which version you get.

Like clipsetuner said, there isn't much else that can be added to the debate until one of us does it and can say for sure one way or the other.

-Doc