macavely

#1

Ok i can't seam to find what i was looking for ..

so my question is what is the highest reported boost before breakdown on a 5s with stock internals..

and also does anyone if there is a company that makes stronger valve spring for for the 5s ?

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[TeamNJCT

recneps

#2

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QUOTE(macavely @ Jan 25, 2006 - 6:06 AM) [snapback]383867[/snapback]

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Ok i can't seam to find what i was looking for ..

so my question is what is the highest reported boost before breakdown on a 5s with stock internals..

and also does anyone if there is a company that makes stronger valve spring for for the 5s ?

i think itchy made 15 on the stock 5s. thats the highest i remember.

also, supertech i think will make any kind of valve spring for i think anycar custom spring rates and stuff. you should look them up.

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Former: 96 GT 5 speed(i/p/e)Fate-rear ended by mack truck00 GTS 6 speed(i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/)193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted)Fate-side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph.Next: maybe an elise

presure2

#3

i ran just about 15lbs @ the track for a couple passes...wouldnt run it every day like that tho..lol

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Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered

x_itchy_b_x

#4

word i ran 15psi alot. spiked at 20 once also when my MBC was first put on cause i didnt build it properly forgot to put a hole in it to vent boost.

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Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.

lagos

#5

most motors wont blow up just by running higher boost once or twice. if you keep running that same high boost often then youll see engine damage. so i think the question is hard to reply to, because there is no real proof what boost level is safe or not, unless somone has run that same boost for a year or more.

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

x_itchy_b_x

#6

i did one summer at 13psi constantly. to bad we dont know if it really did damage
some one buy my 5s and blow it up.

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Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.

jayi12-15psi

#7

I usually hear reports that it's not wise to go over 6lbs with out fuel system upgrades. It all depends on the condition of your engine and your set up. For instance, if you're running stock injectors, I wouldn't go higher than 6lbs. If your car has alot of miles, you may want to consider an engine overhaul. Then of course, I'll just go out and say it...


Your probably better off with the 3sgte.

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[img]http://photos-081.facebook.com/n6/081/n15913038_30266081_3342.jpg[/img]

macavely

#8

well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

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[TeamNJCT

jayi12-15psi

#9

Isn't as easily done?

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[img]http://photos-081.facebook.com/n6/081/n15913038_30266081_3342.jpg[/img]

macavely

#10

yea.. a swap your taking a motor that was intended for performance and has alot more support for making more power... the 5s as everyone here know is an ecano box... an getting it to the point i want it to be will take more time/money/R&D then if i just swapped in a 3sgte in there ...

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[TeamNJCT

jayi12-15psi

#11

ok, ok, ic. You're up to your old stubborn tricks. lol, no offense.

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[img]http://photos-081.facebook.com/n6/081/n15913038_30266081_3342.jpg[/img]

macavely

#12

lol .. no none take... but its something i might have to do .. for the soul reason of me showing off the work i'm capable of doing .. no other reason ..

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lagos

#13

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QUOTE(macavely @ Jan 25, 2006 - 11:34 PM) [snapback]384500[/snapback]

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well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

i wouldnt say that any car, at daily driven 20psi, would be an easy thing. swap or 5sfTe.

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

macavely

#14

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QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 26, 2006 - 1:45 AM) [snapback]384586[/snapback]

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>

QUOTE(macavely @ Jan 25, 2006 - 11:34 PM) [snapback]384500[/snapback]

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well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

i wouldnt say that any car, at daily driven 20psi, would be an easy thing. swap or 5sfTe.

depends at what corner of the shop your looking from ... .

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[TeamNJCT

Defgeph

#15

If your looking for big power, you wont find it in a 5sfe Mac. I know it sucks to hear, but no matter what you do. Its very limited.

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I will return one day.

macavely

#16

I know its limited ... i'm not looking to make this a beast that will distroy all that come my way... this is a project to show off my building skills an what we can do with an econo engine ... we might find out we can take way pass what anyone else has done... but our plan is to buil push it to limits an see how long we can keep it at its limit..

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[TeamNJCT

jayi12-15psi

#17

mac, if you're looking at the project from the corner of the shop, you're not showing off your skills.

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[img]http://photos-081.facebook.com/n6/081/n15913038_30266081_3342.jpg[/img]

lagos

#18

building a 5sfe that can handle 20 psi will not show off your building skills. it will just show that you have REALLY deep pockets.

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

macavely

#19

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QUOTE(jayi12-15psi @ Jan 26, 2006 - 2:14 AM) [snapback]384597[/snapback]

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mac, if you're looking at the project from the corner of the shop, you're not showing off your skills.

lol .. you totaly missed understood that statment ... lol ..

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QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 26, 2006 - 2:33 AM) [snapback]384603[/snapback]

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building a 5sfe that can handle 20 psi will not show off your building skills. it will just show that you have REALLY deep pockets.

its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

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[TeamNJCT

presure2

#20

mac, you wanna run 20psi...? its easy..
forged EVERYTHING, build the hell outta the head..cams, OS valves the whole shoot, and a good metal headgasket...slap on the RIGHT turbo, with proper engine management, with a REAL tuner, and then just cross your fingers, and hope the block holds together.
jim snodgrass made 515 on a built 5s with the right goodies..

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Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered

Kwanza26

#21

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QUOTE(macavely @ Jan 26, 2006 - 9:41 AM) [snapback]384617[/snapback]

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its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

building an engine is building an engine. It's the same amount of work if you use OEM parts or parts that can handle 20psi... it's only a matter of $$$$... that's what lagos means.

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

jayi12-15psi

#22

sorry mac, sometimes your posts are hard to understand

it sounded as if you were calling it easy because you were standing in the corner of the shop watching a mechanic do the work.

This post has been edited by jayi12-15psi: Jan 26, 2006 - 12:27 PM

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lagos

#23

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QUOTE(Kwanza26 @ Jan 26, 2006 - 11:00 AM) [snapback]384686[/snapback]

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QUOTE(macavely @ Jan 26, 2006 - 9:41 AM) [snapback]384617[/snapback]

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its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

building an engine is building an engine. It's the same amount of work if you use OEM parts or parts that can handle 20psi... it's only a matter of $$$$... that's what lagos means.

yep thats what i mean. its the same amount of work to put it oem pistons and rods and it is to go with forged ones. the problem is, that youll have to upgrade EVERYTHING in the motor to do what you want. so the real skill here is to have enough money to change everything and to be able to keep up with all the issues that come up from having such a custom setup.

20psi is A LOT of boost. its not easy to run that much on pump gas. a 3s would have a hard time with it, and a high comression motor like a 5sfe wouldnt stand a chance. remember, your talking about building a 300-400hp 5sfe. if i had to guess, id say that would cost you at least 10grand to build up the motor, with the turbo and stand alone ecu. and even after that, it wouldnt be a realiable daily driver. even if you did the same mods on a 3sgte, getting 300-400 hp out of a 4cyl motor is not an easy task.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 26, 2006 - 3:15 PM

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

macavely

#24

if off everyone please stop worrying about how much this rebuild is going to cost unless you want to filp the bill for it.. i don't remebering asking for prices....

and as for not involving skills can i have a show of hands... how many people on this froum have rebuilt and a 5s .. or any engine for that fact to handle 20lbs of boost on a daily driven car ? kwanza i know you might have.. so who else ?? an if you have or haven't .. tell give me a list of every little think that should be doen to get a motor to that point ?

lets stop with the shouldn't do this or that and put some useful info on this site for any future tunners that are looking for some answers ... can we do that people ? or am i still going to get the tipical go with a swap response ?

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[TeamNJCT

lagos

#25

i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

macavely

#26

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QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 26, 2006 - 4:22 PM) [snapback]384856[/snapback]

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i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

not really if done right .. i been down that road befor... pump gas and 320 to the wheels ... every reliable for the 2 yeas i was abusing the motor trying to get it fail ..

it still shocks me how people on this site still don't trully know what can be done to a motor... and hp is not my goal hear.. it is running 20lbs of boost on a daily driver... the motor will be set up to handle more then the 20lbs i'm going for...

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blackthunder

#27

i may be a noob but im with you on this mac. i have big plans for my car and the only goal is to just do it. HP, time slips, psi, its all an aside. build it to say that you can and did and enjoy the he11 out of it while you have it!

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-Dan1998 SSII Beams, work in progress...

Kwanza26

#28

Just build it we'll see...

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

NuclearHappineS

#29

i don't care much for xpsi

you can make 300hp @ 12psi or 200 hp @21psi

alot of psi is more heat, and the possibility of lifting the head (since that psi gets multiplied up by compression) ...

a ported and oversized valves and cammed 5sfe will make more hp @ lower psi...so if your goal is 20psi that doesn't quite make sense to me ... you can do that on a stock 5sfe with enough octane ...but that doesn't mean you'll make the power you think you'd be making...

as far as valve springs...depending on what year 5sfe you're using ...either 3sgte, or 4age, or 2jzge valve springs will drop right in ...some years had smaller valve springs which are compatable with the 4age stuff...and other years had larger springs in which case the 3sgte/2jzge size would fit ...and it's definately an upgrade since all these motors have higher lift cams, and higher redlines...

good luck with your project...

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2005 MB C200 Kompressor- K&N, Apexi WS2 Catback, DIY Voltage stabilizer, Intrax Springs, H&R RR swaybar, VDO Boost Gauge @ 6psi, Greddy L7 plugs, +0 Rear tiresTo Do: E-manage Ultimate tuned up to 12psi

macavely

#30

>

QUOTE(NuclearHappineS @ Jan 30, 2006 - 5:23 PM) [snapback]386526[/snapback]

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i don't care much for xpsi

you can make 300hp @ 12psi or 200 hp @21psi

alot of psi is more heat, and the possibility of lifting the head (since that psi gets multiplied up by compression) ...

a ported and oversized valves and cammed 5sfe will make more hp @ lower psi...so if your goal is 20psi that doesn't quite make sense to me ... you can do that on a stock 5sfe with enough octane ...but that doesn't mean you'll make the power you think you'd be making...

as far as valve springs...depending on what year 5sfe you're using ...either 3sgte, or 4age, or 2jzge valve springs will drop right in ...some years had smaller valve springs which are compatable with the 4age stuff...and other years had larger springs in which case the 3sgte/2jzge size would fit ...and it's definately an upgrade since all these motors have higher lift cams, and higher redlines...

good luck with your project...

thanks for the spring info.. as for the psi issue its really not for making high HP numbers at this time.. simply for testing out diffrent parts on a 5s .. basically we are looking to maked the engine fail once built a specific way .. and with the compresion rate of the pistions 20psi will well lets hope cause alot of damage ..

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