Ok, I'm gonna be taking off my top mount and putting my fmic on in a few weeks. What do I need to do that, I know I need the basic stuff like ic piping, couplers, fmic and mounting brackets(obviously), all that stuff I have. But do I need BOV or BPV, MBC or anything extra like that? I'm still running stock boost and plan on running stock boost for a little while after that.
What's needed for IC piping install - 6G Celicas Forums
bov, mbc is all toys
for a FMIC all you need its silicone couplers, t-bolt clamps, and pipe
for a FMIC all you need its silicone couplers, t-bolt clamps, and pipe
dont you already have a fmic.....at least thats what it says in your profile
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
A bov or bpv is not a toy. It releases pressure to keep the turbo from surging on shifts. This greatly increases turbo longevity - particularly if you are running higher boost pressures. With the exception of the ST185, I know of no factory turbo cars that do not have some type of bov or bpv.
This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 25, 2006 - 9:12 PM
QUOTE(playr158 @ Jan 25, 2006 - 5:38 PM) [snapback]384273[/snapback]
>
bov, mbc is all toys
for a FMIC all you need its silicone couplers, t-bolt clamps, and pipe
bov, mbc is all toys
for a FMIC all you need its silicone couplers, t-bolt clamps, and pipe
A bov or bpv is not a toy. It releases pressure to keep the turbo from surging on shifts. This greatly increases turbo longevity - particularly if you are running higher boost pressures. With the exception of the ST185, I know of no factory turbo cars that do not have some type of bov or bpv.
This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 25, 2006 - 9:12 PM
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
yah i always wondered by our celica 3sgtes had no stock BOVs...hmmm...anyway just get a BOV and ull be set
bboy
bboy
..(formerly daily driven) 3S-GTE powered celica currently set @ 12psi..
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.
>
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
QUOTE(x_itchy_b_x @ Jan 25, 2006 - 8:41 PM) [snapback]384391[/snapback]
>
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
no clue. i have never seen a factory one (my clip had a hks one) so i cant really tell yah if it could be used or not. the mr2 guys swear by them.
Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.
>
I have one but its just not installed yet.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 26, 2006 - 2:04 AM) [snapback]384352[/snapback]
>
dont you already have a fmic.....at least thats what it says in your profile
dont you already have a fmic.....at least thats what it says in your profile
I have one but its just not installed yet.
>
Doge has one, but he is still on the stock top mount last time i checked.
i have the stock ic piping and bov from an mr2. alwasy thought about trying it out on my car. all you would have to do is cut the flange off the stock piping on a band saw or with a plasma cutter, and have it welded onto your ic piping. or just get a short 1in pipe welded onto your piping and use a rubber hose to connect it to the mr2 bov. thats how they did it with the 3rd gen 3sgte, using the same bov.
on a side note.... i recently took apart my hks ssqv and compared it to the mr2 bov. they are basically the same design. the only difference is that the hks has 2 valves that can open (small and large) while the mr2 bov just has the one large one. other then that its pretty much the same concept and should be as responsive as the mr2.
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:46 PM) [snapback]384398[/snapback]
>
>
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
>
QUOTE(x_itchy_b_x @ Jan 25, 2006 - 8:41 PM) [snapback]384391[/snapback]
>
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
Doge has one, but he is still on the stock top mount last time i checked.
i have the stock ic piping and bov from an mr2. alwasy thought about trying it out on my car. all you would have to do is cut the flange off the stock piping on a band saw or with a plasma cutter, and have it welded onto your ic piping. or just get a short 1in pipe welded onto your piping and use a rubber hose to connect it to the mr2 bov. thats how they did it with the 3rd gen 3sgte, using the same bov.
on a side note.... i recently took apart my hks ssqv and compared it to the mr2 bov. they are basically the same design. the only difference is that the hks has 2 valves that can open (small and large) while the mr2 bov just has the one large one. other then that its pretty much the same concept and should be as responsive as the mr2.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
I have read that one of the primary advantages of running the mr2 bpv is the elimination of incorrect metering by the AFM (followed by the dumping of fuel and backfires) when the BOV opens. If this is true, how could the HKS BOV be the same as the MR2 bpv?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:02 PM) [snapback]384410[/snapback]
>
>
Doge has one, but he is still on the stock top mount last time i checked.
i have the stock ic piping and bov from an mr2. alwasy thought about trying it out on my car. all you would have to do is cut the flange off the stock piping on a band saw or with a plasma cutter, and have it welded onto your ic piping. or just get a short 1in pipe welded onto your piping and use a rubber hose to connect it to the mr2 bov. thats how they did it with the 3rd gen 3sgte, using the same bov.
on a side note.... i recently took apart my hks ssqv and compared it to the mr2 bov. they are basically the same design. the only difference is that the hks has 2 valves that can open (small and large) while the mr2 bov just has the one large one. other then that its pretty much the same concept and should be as responsive as the mr2.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:46 PM) [snapback]384398[/snapback]
>
>
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
>
QUOTE(x_itchy_b_x @ Jan 25, 2006 - 8:41 PM) [snapback]384391[/snapback]
>
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
the factory 3s one is the best they say to just leave it on.
Do you know if anyone has ever used a mr2 bpv in a FMIC setup? I have always wondered if that could be done.
Doge has one, but he is still on the stock top mount last time i checked.
i have the stock ic piping and bov from an mr2. alwasy thought about trying it out on my car. all you would have to do is cut the flange off the stock piping on a band saw or with a plasma cutter, and have it welded onto your ic piping. or just get a short 1in pipe welded onto your piping and use a rubber hose to connect it to the mr2 bov. thats how they did it with the 3rd gen 3sgte, using the same bov.
on a side note.... i recently took apart my hks ssqv and compared it to the mr2 bov. they are basically the same design. the only difference is that the hks has 2 valves that can open (small and large) while the mr2 bov just has the one large one. other then that its pretty much the same concept and should be as responsive as the mr2.
I have read that one of the primary advantages of running the mr2 bpv is the elimination of incorrect metering by the AFM (followed by the dumping of fuel and backfires) when the BOV opens. If this is true, how could the HKS BOV be the same as the MR2 bpv?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
well they sell the recirculation adapter for the hks ssqv (i have 1, not installed) its just that u need to run a 1 inch hose back to ur intake pipe...then the hks wont cause anything to go rich in between shifts
bboy
This post has been edited by BBoYRuGGeD: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:09 PM
bboy
This post has been edited by BBoYRuGGeD: Jan 25, 2006 - 10:09 PM
..(formerly daily driven) 3S-GTE powered celica currently set @ 12psi..
to reply to your original question ...
you need about 8 90degree bends. 2 45s, 1 180deg.
go on ebay and look for silicone couplers. i bought a big 4 foot long tube for about 40bucks for mine. its great because u can cut it as long as you want.
youll need a bunch of clamps. get the Tbolt type. not sure how many youll need to ....its at least 20 i think
get a pipe cutter from sears, or a band saw if you can afford it.
get a bov.... with the stock top mount, there isint enough compressor surge to damage your turbo, but a fmic will, so you do need a bov.
its going to take at least a whole day to do the piping, and you might realize that your need to buy some more parts
you need about 8 90degree bends. 2 45s, 1 180deg.
go on ebay and look for silicone couplers. i bought a big 4 foot long tube for about 40bucks for mine. its great because u can cut it as long as you want.
youll need a bunch of clamps. get the Tbolt type. not sure how many youll need to ....its at least 20 i think
get a pipe cutter from sears, or a band saw if you can afford it.
get a bov.... with the stock top mount, there isint enough compressor surge to damage your turbo, but a fmic will, so you do need a bov.
its going to take at least a whole day to do the piping, and you might realize that your need to buy some more parts
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
The whole recirculation thing is another thing I don't completely understand. If the air is being let out to relieve pressure on the turbo, why is it that recirculating the air back into the intake pipe does not reintroduce the same pressures to the system?
QUOTE(BBoYRuGGeD @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:08 PM) [snapback]384415[/snapback]
>
well they sell the recirculation adapter for the hks ssqv (i have 1, not installed) its just that u need to run a 1 inch hose back to ur intake pipe...then the hks wont cause anything to go rich in between shifts
bboy
well they sell the recirculation adapter for the hks ssqv (i have 1, not installed) its just that u need to run a 1 inch hose back to ur intake pipe...then the hks wont cause anything to go rich in between shifts
bboy
The whole recirculation thing is another thing I don't completely understand. If the air is being let out to relieve pressure on the turbo, why is it that recirculating the air back into the intake pipe does not reintroduce the same pressures to the system?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
yes....bboy is right, if you get the hks and recirculate it, it will be pretty much the same as an mr2 bov. its a silly thing to do for mr2 guys, because they already have a good bov to start off with, and you loose 90% of the sound when u recirculate the hks.
>
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 10:11 PM) [snapback]384420[/snapback]
>
>
The whole recirculation thing is another thing I don't completely understand. If the air is being let out to relieve pressure on the turbo, why is it that recirculating the air back into the intake pipe does not reintroduce the same pressures to the system?
>
QUOTE(BBoYRuGGeD @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:08 PM) [snapback]384415[/snapback]
>
well they sell the recirculation adapter for the hks ssqv (i have 1, not installed) its just that u need to run a 1 inch hose back to ur intake pipe...then the hks wont cause anything to go rich in between shifts
bboy
well they sell the recirculation adapter for the hks ssqv (i have 1, not installed) its just that u need to run a 1 inch hose back to ur intake pipe...then the hks wont cause anything to go rich in between shifts
bboy
The whole recirculation thing is another thing I don't completely understand. If the air is being let out to relieve pressure on the turbo, why is it that recirculating the air back into the intake pipe does not reintroduce the same pressures to the system?
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
well the way i look at it is that when the air which the afm already accounted for is let into the atmosphere...the ecu cant compensate for the loss. it'll give an X amount of fuel for the X amount of air that was measured AT the AFM. when the air is released...theres still that extra fuel for that vented air. thats why we go rich a lil bit during shifts. when the bov is routed back into the intake pipe AFTER the AFM then the equation is still equal. im sorry if im confusing... 
bboy
bboy
..(formerly daily driven) 3S-GTE powered celica currently set @ 12psi..
>
yep thats right
QUOTE(BBoYRuGGeD @ Jan 25, 2006 - 10:17 PM) [snapback]384427[/snapback]
>
well the way i look at it is that when the air which the afm already accounted for is let into the atmosphere...the ecu cant compensate for the loss. it'll give an X amount of fuel for the X amount of air that was measured AT the AFM. when the air is released...theres still that extra fuel for that vented air. thats why we go rich a lil bit during shifts. when the bov is routed back into the intake pipe AFTER the AFM then the equation is still equal. im sorry if im confusing...
bboy
well the way i look at it is that when the air which the afm already accounted for is let into the atmosphere...the ecu cant compensate for the loss. it'll give an X amount of fuel for the X amount of air that was measured AT the AFM. when the air is released...theres still that extra fuel for that vented air. thats why we go rich a lil bit during shifts. when the bov is routed back into the intake pipe AFTER the AFM then the equation is still equal. im sorry if im confusing...
bboy
yep thats right
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
Does it get recirculated to a point before or after the AFM?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:14 PM) [snapback]384422[/snapback]
>
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
Does it get recirculated to a point before or after the AFM?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
has to be after...cuz if its before then the afm will read that xtra air thats being vented as extra and ull go super rich..i guess lol if its after then like i said...the air and fuel mixture is still evened out
bboy
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 26, 2006 - 3:19 AM) [snapback]384431[/snapback]
>
>
Does it get recirculated to a point before or after the AFM?
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:14 PM) [snapback]384422[/snapback]
>
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
because the whole stress on the turbo blades happens after the turbo outlet... when you recirculate your are realeasing that stress from that location and moving it before the turbo.
think of it this way ... if you attach a boost gauge before the turbo, you wont see any boost on the gauge because there is no presurized air there.
Does it get recirculated to a point before or after the AFM?
has to be after...cuz if its before then the afm will read that xtra air thats being vented as extra and ull go super rich..i guess lol if its after then like i said...the air and fuel mixture is still evened out
bboy
..(formerly daily driven) 3S-GTE powered celica currently set @ 12psi..
it gets recirculater right between the afm and the turbo intake. the turbo is constantly sucking in air, so getting it back from the recirculation wont harm it there. the afm flapper door will probably not have to open as much after you shift too, because it still has the air from the recirculated bov
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 10:25 PM) [snapback]384439[/snapback]
>
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
The compressor is sucking the air into the turbo. I am just wondering if dumping that air back into the system before the turbo would cause problems because the air might be foreced back up the intake path if the turbo couldn't handle it all. Obviously, this would only occur, if at all, for a split second but it makes me wonder if there is any effect - like going lean for a short period of time.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:28 PM) [snapback]384443[/snapback]
>
>
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 10:25 PM) [snapback]384439[/snapback]
>
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
The compressor is sucking the air into the turbo. I am just wondering if dumping that air back into the system before the turbo would cause problems because the air might be foreced back up the intake path if the turbo couldn't handle it all. Obviously, this would only occur, if at all, for a split second but it makes me wonder if there is any effect - like going lean for a short period of time.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
no there shouldnt be any problem because thats why the BOV is there...to make sure the air doesnt come back out of the turbo and cause the dreaded turbo surge
bboy
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 26, 2006 - 3:33 AM) [snapback]384446[/snapback]
>
>
The compressor is sucking the air into the turbo. I am just wondering if dumping that air back into the system before the turbo would cause problems because the air might be foreced back up the intake path if the turbo couldn't handle it all. Obviously, this would only occur, if at all, for a split second but it makes me wonder if there is any effect - like going lean for a short period of time.
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 25, 2006 - 9:28 PM) [snapback]384443[/snapback]
>
>
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jan 25, 2006 - 10:25 PM) [snapback]384439[/snapback]
>
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
One more question. Does all of the air going into the turbo end up in the intake tract?
im not sure if i undersand what you mean?
The compressor is sucking the air into the turbo. I am just wondering if dumping that air back into the system before the turbo would cause problems because the air might be foreced back up the intake path if the turbo couldn't handle it all. Obviously, this would only occur, if at all, for a split second but it makes me wonder if there is any effect - like going lean for a short period of time.
no there shouldnt be any problem because thats why the BOV is there...to make sure the air doesnt come back out of the turbo and cause the dreaded turbo surge
bboy
..(formerly daily driven) 3S-GTE powered celica currently set @ 12psi..
no it shouldnt.
the ecu already knows about that air. your bov only realeases a small amount of air (not all of the air in your ic piping) and it will just get sucked right up by the turbo. some people say that it even gives your better throttle response, and thats why toyota recirculates the air even on their map based cars.
it makes sense if u think about it ... imagine having a small fan that spins up and down. if you blow on it with your mouth (recirculated bov), it will probably spin back up a lot faster then it would on its own.
the ecu already knows about that air. your bov only realeases a small amount of air (not all of the air in your ic piping) and it will just get sucked right up by the turbo. some people say that it even gives your better throttle response, and thats why toyota recirculates the air even on their map based cars.
it makes sense if u think about it ... imagine having a small fan that spins up and down. if you blow on it with your mouth (recirculated bov), it will probably spin back up a lot faster then it would on its own.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
Thanks for the lesson guys. This is a good example of the way a thread should be.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
Right all the piping, brackets, and fmic I have. I need to get couplers and t-clamps which I knew already, just wanted to know if a mbc or bpv was a necessity.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 26, 2006 - 3:09 AM) [snapback]384417[/snapback]
>
to reply to your original question ...
you need about 8 90degree bends. 2 45s, 1 180deg.
go on ebay and look for silicone couplers. i bought a big 4 foot long tube for about 40bucks for mine. its great because u can cut it as long as you want.
youll need a bunch of clamps. get the Tbolt type. not sure how many youll need to ....its at least 20 i think
get a pipe cutter from sears, or a band saw if you can afford it.
get a bov.... with the stock top mount, there isint enough compressor surge to damage your turbo, but a fmic will, so you do need a bov.
its going to take at least a whole day to do the piping, and you might realize that your need to buy some more parts
to reply to your original question ...
you need about 8 90degree bends. 2 45s, 1 180deg.
go on ebay and look for silicone couplers. i bought a big 4 foot long tube for about 40bucks for mine. its great because u can cut it as long as you want.
youll need a bunch of clamps. get the Tbolt type. not sure how many youll need to ....its at least 20 i think
get a pipe cutter from sears, or a band saw if you can afford it.
get a bov.... with the stock top mount, there isint enough compressor surge to damage your turbo, but a fmic will, so you do need a bov.
its going to take at least a whole day to do the piping, and you might realize that your need to buy some more parts
Right all the piping, brackets, and fmic I have. I need to get couplers and t-clamps which I knew already, just wanted to know if a mbc or bpv was a necessity.
Oh, and, contrary to a previous post, a boost controller is not a toy either. However, it is completely distinct from the intercooler piping. I highly recommend one along with a fcd at some point. Get her running first.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
yes, get a bov. its a must on a fmic setup because you are now dealing with a much larger volume of air that will harm the turbo.
mbc .. you dont need one yet, but youll probably want one at some point.
i think dan called all those things toys because i always yell at him to stop buying bovs, mbc, turbo timers and other toys before he even got a 3sgte into his engine bay. so maybe i drilled it into him too hard..lol
mbc .. you dont need one yet, but youll probably want one at some point.
i think dan called all those things toys because i always yell at him to stop buying bovs, mbc, turbo timers and other toys before he even got a 3sgte into his engine bay. so maybe i drilled it into him too hard..lol
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
no i only said "toys" because its not a necessity to get it up and running they are a mear "addition" to the base line..
as he said he wants to keep stock boost for awhile and MBC is a toy..only if you want to run more then stock boost... stating that he didn't its superflous in his setup for now...
the BOV yes i can see the need for it but he wont see any huge immediate danger although i would use one
as he said he wants to keep stock boost for awhile and MBC is a toy..only if you want to run more then stock boost... stating that he didn't its superflous in his setup for now...
the BOV yes i can see the need for it but he wont see any huge immediate danger although i would use one