NGHTKD

#1

Hey guys and girls on 6gc.net,


I juz want to know how the 3sgte compares to the SR20DET, EJ20DET, RB20DET, 4G63 and other 2.0LTR turbos. Overall durability, revability, torque, internals (strength) etc. Is the 3sgte really a better overall package than the legendary SR20DET???

Cheers

This post has been edited by NGHTKD: Feb 15, 2006 - 3:28 AM

orvillescelica

#2

All teh engines you listed are built for turbo, so their durability and internals are going to be comparable to each other. Even so, if you want crazy power out of any of them, you are going to need to build up those internals.

As for the rest, i think they are subject to debate. And on this board, being mostly Toyota guys, youll get a biased view. I personally think from the list, the best of them is the 4g63. It has the power capability, the racing heritage, and the reliability of 16 years unchanged in production to back it up. Second to that for me comes the 3sgte. Again, this is my opinion only. Im sure other's opinions differ.

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Supersprynt

#3

The RB20DET is a 6cylinder engine.

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Consynx

#4

lmfao, i was just gonna say take the RB out, lol'
it depends on what you want
they're all pretty much the same, w/ sublte differences, so in the end i see them all being equal.
the ej is the stand-out since it's a boxter.

but sr is alum
3s cast iron
4g63, iunno...

comparing same years
then doesn't the 4G use an older type of lifters?

i honestly don't know enough about the engines in pure facts to point out each's flaws, but they're there.

IMO, out of those i'd take the RB. Gotta love having a short stroke

lagos

#5

>

QUOTE

> the best of them is the 4g63. It has the power capability, the racing heritage, and the reliability of 16 years unchanged in production to back it up.

ask any 4g63 owner, how reliable their motor is and they will hand you a list of stuff they just finished fixing in the past week..lol

NGHTKD, all of the 4cly 2.0l motors are pretty similar. the sr20 and 4g63 are just more popular, but you can make just as much power with a 3sgte as you can with any of those motors. sign up to www.mr2oc.com and check out what some of those guys are doing. also go to www.atsracing.com and see the upgrade options they offer for the 3sgte

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

vangSTa_celica

#6

^

Werd lagos. My 4G63 sucked so much butt. I didn't even drive it once in the winter here...because I couldn't. It never started.

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Silver94CelicaOwner

#7

I work with a guy whos got a 4G63 in his 1st Gen. GSX and has little problems with it.....like the infamous 1st gen "oozing ECU" problem, as well as a million bad vacuum lines and other bad quirks. However it holds up pretty well considering its a 91'.

3SGTE or SR20DET would be my pick, followed by the 4G63 and EJ20. I absolutely love a turbo boxer motor.

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3rd gen ST205 3SGTE - Alive and boosting.

recneps

#8

stock for stock. the 4g63 is going to push the most hp without a doubt.

IMO the 3s head just dosnt flow enough.

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Former: 96 GT 5 speed(i/p/e)Fate-rear ended by mack truck00 GTS 6 speed(i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/)193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted)Fate-side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph.Next: maybe an elise

burneeed

#9

ehhh all dsm guys will tell you how many problems they have had with there car. A friend of mine had to go through 4 trannys before he sold the car. But there were constant problems with the motor. it would blow head gaskets like no other.

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x_itchy_b_x

#10

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QUOTE(recneps @ Feb 16, 2006 - 10:53 PM) [snapback]395214[/snapback]

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stock for stock. the 4g63 is going to push the most hp without a doubt.

IMO the 3s head just dosnt flow enough.

which gen 3sgte are you talking about though. he 2nd gen is what people mostly have. and yeah the intake manifold is kinda restrictive. but on the newer 3s like the caldina that isnt a porblem. well so im told.

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Consynx

#11

i don't believe the 2nd gen 3S was designed to be a high revving beast
w/ a feature such as T-VIS is just seems like there were going for a realiable fun car all across the powerband.
kinda like the ej20 and how it acts like a NA, lol.

lagos

#12

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QUOTE(recneps @ Feb 16, 2006 - 8:53 PM) [snapback]395214[/snapback]

>
stock for stock. the 4g63 is going to push the most hp without a doubt.

IMO the 3s head just dosnt flow enough.

the problem isint really with the head or anything to do with the motor design. the 1st gen 4g63 came with a far more powerfull turbo then the stock ct26 that comes on the 3sgte. thats why youll make more power out of them out of the box.




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QUOTE(Consynx @ Feb 17, 2006 - 5:54 PM) [snapback]395605[/snapback]

>
i don't believe the 2nd gen 3S was designed to be a high revving beast
w/ a feature such as T-VIS is just seems like there were going for a realiable fun car all across the powerband.
kinda like the ej20 and how it acts like a NA, lol.

the 4g63 and the 3sgte have the same redline of 7300rpm. the tvis system on the 3sgte is controled by a Vac line. of you dont like it, you can cap the vac line and it will keep all 8 intake runners open at all times.

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

Consynx

#13

won't you lose low-end power then?
what's the advantage of doing that?

the technology behind it makes sense, but i'm guessing there's some kind of lag for when it opens or somethin???

lagos

#14

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QUOTE(Consynx @ Feb 18, 2006 - 12:56 AM) [snapback]395748[/snapback]

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won't you lose low-end power then?
what's the advantage of doing that?

the technology behind it makes sense, but i'm guessing there's some kind of lag for when it opens or somethin???

when it opens you feel an extra boost in power.

it might be a benefit to disable it if you upgrade the turbo. they got rid of it in the 3rd gen 3sgte.

most people agree that the tvis is a good thing on the stock ct26, but its set to open way too late. i would rather have it open up at about 3500 myself.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 18, 2006 - 1:38 AM

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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

Punch

#15

the TVIS is more for NA car a turbo car does not realy need it...

jgreening

#16

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QUOTE(lagos @ Feb 18, 2006 - 12:37 AM) [snapback]395753[/snapback]

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>

QUOTE(Consynx @ Feb 18, 2006 - 12:56 AM) [snapback]395748[/snapback]

>
won't you lose low-end power then?
what's the advantage of doing that?

the technology behind it makes sense, but i'm guessing there's some kind of lag for when it opens or somethin???

when it opens you feel an extra boost in power.

it might be a benefit to disable it if you upgrade the turbo. they got rid of it in the 3rd gen 3sgte.

most people agree that the tvis is a good thing on the stock ct26, but its set to open way too late. i would rather have it open up at about 3500 myself.

At low RPM, you want a smaller opening to keep air velocity high. At higher RPMs, the smaller opening becomes a restriction. The TVIS is designed to double the size of the opening at a preset RPM. If you look at two dyno plots of the same car, one with TVIS held open and one with TVIS held closed, you will see that the one with it closed has greater torque in the lower RPM's and the one with it held open has greater torque in the upper RPMs. The point that the torque lines cross is where you ideally want the TVIS to open. On most 3sgte's, I have read that is around 3700-3800. You can buy some simple electronics to change the set point, if you want.

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QUOTE(Punch @ Feb 18, 2006 - 2:28 AM) [snapback]395786[/snapback]

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the TVIS is more for NA car a turbo car does not realy need it...

It only needs it to maximize performance in the low RPM's. But, I generally agree with you.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Feb 18, 2006 - 9:21 PM

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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.

lilsteeg

#17

but the 4g63 had crank walk problems and doesnt have as much powere year for year as the 3rd gen 3sgte

Consynx

#18

only the 2nd gen dsms had the crank-walk problem.
best combo of the 4gs(cheaply) was a 1st gen bottom w/ 2nd gen head.

so now i know why t-vis isn't liked, it's set to open too late.
what about instead of caping the line, having a pinch or some kind of throttle valve just to get it to open sooner?

*edit* not trying to hi-jack the thread, getting the down-side of the 3S out

This post has been edited by Consynx: Feb 18, 2006 - 9:49 PM

jgreening

#19

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QUOTE(Consynx @ Feb 18, 2006 - 11:24 AM) [snapback]395879[/snapback]

>
lol, and Jay...
"If you look at two dyno plots of the same car, one with TVIS held open and one with TVIS held closed, you will see that the one with it closed has greater torque in the lower RPM's and the one with it held closed has greater torque in the lower RPMs. "
you musta been up late, lol
i know what you meant to say, but i got a laugh outta that.

oops. fixed.

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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.

lilsteeg

#20

>

QUOTE(Consynx @ Feb 18, 2006 - 12:24 PM) [snapback]395879[/snapback]

>
only the 2nd gen dsms had the crank-walk problem.
best combo of the 4gs(cheaply) was a 1st gen bottom w/ 2nd gen head.

so now i know why t-vis isn't liked, it's set to open too late.
what about instead of caping the line, having a pinch or some kind of throttle valve just to get it to open sooner?

*edit* not trying to hi-jack the thread, getting the down-side of the 3S out

and the 1st gen bov

recneps

#21

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QUOTE(x_itchy_b_x @ Feb 17, 2006 - 10:42 PM) [snapback]395601[/snapback]

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>

QUOTE(recneps @ Feb 16, 2006 - 10:53 PM) [snapback]395214[/snapback]

>
stock for stock. the 4g63 is going to push the most hp without a doubt.

IMO the 3s head just dosnt flow enough.

which gen 3sgte are you talking about though. he 2nd gen is what people mostly have. and yeah the intake manifold is kinda restrictive. but on the newer 3s like the caldina that isnt a porblem. well so im told.

yeah i was talking about the 2nd gen, the IM does flow horrible and im pretty much firmly against AFM when your trying to get maximum flow. but if im correct the 3rd gen 3s mas MAF?

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Former: 96 GT 5 speed(i/p/e)Fate-rear ended by mack truck00 GTS 6 speed(i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/)193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted)Fate-side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph.Next: maybe an elise

Consynx

#22

MAP, yes
AFM, and MAF are the same.