Celiracer18

#1

I went to my local import yard and asked if he had any 4age's and he said the only thing he had was a 4agelc.... Anyone know what this is from or anything else about it?

Oh yeah and i also found a red-top 4age around here for sale and was wondering the same thing about it. All the ad says is "Toyota 4age Redtop engine and C52 Trans Complete Swap"

This post has been edited by Celiracer18: Jul 18, 2006 - 3:19 PM

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-Brian

tomazws

#2

4agelc is an old old old old old engine from the 198X MR2s and Corollas

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-TomazWSwww.tomazws.com

Celiracer18

#3

so its not really worth swapping or anything?

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-Brian

MaskedMan

#4

the 4AGELC is an early 4AGE low comp engine found in AW11s and AE86s.

EDIT: there's really no point to swap it in your car. It's not a bad engine, but the HP numbers are about the same as a 7afe anyways. It would be better to swap a 4AGE 20v in (silver top or black top) or you could try and find a 4agze.

This post has been edited by MaskedMan: Jul 18, 2006 - 3:57 PM

netrata

#5

Go for the redtop 4age with c52 swap. But first find out if it comes with an "uncut harness." And im guessing that the engine came out of a ae92 corolla gts. And if its true about the tranny, even better I would go the other end since there is alot, and I mean alot, of performance support for the 16v 4age. You can either go boosted, n/a, or supercharged since it allows it. I already got the silvertop which has a good amount of hp, but really bad performance support. Even maintainance can be a hassle because they don't make the parts in the U.S. Either Japan or interchance parts from another toyota. Go 16v 4age if you got the money to upgrade it.

MaskedMan

#6

oh i completely missed the part about the Red top haha.

Silver94CelicaOwner

#7

I have a 4AGELC in my MR2. It rocks in that car, but it would suck in a Celica.

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3rd gen ST205 3SGTE - Alive and boosting.

WH95TE

#8

So how many 4AGE are there?

netrata

#9

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QUOTE(WH95TE @ Jul 19, 2006 - 2:44 AM) [snapback]458042[/snapback]

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So how many 4AGE are there?

Im guessing 5:
*Smallport bluetop 4age
*Largeport redtop 4age
*20v 4age silvertop
*20v 4age blacktop
*4agze

This post has been edited by netrata: Jul 19, 2006 - 3:08 PM

pure_dx

#10

i believe the bluetops never came with small ports, they're all bigports. There are two versions of the redtops (bigport, smallport), then we have the 20vs, and dont forget old old 4ages like the one mentioned earlier, but.....if i were you, i'd swap in a 20v or a 3s in my celica

Rexasaurus

#11

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QUOTE(netrata @ Jul 19, 2006 - 3:07 PM) [snapback]458216[/snapback]

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QUOTE(WH95TE @ Jul 19, 2006 - 2:44 AM) [snapback]458042[/snapback]

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So how many 4AGE are there?

Im guessing 5:
*Smallport bluetop 4age
*Largeport redtop 4age
*20v 4age silvertop
*20v 4age blacktop
*4agze

got the redtop and bluetop switched. bluetops are largeport, redtops are smallport

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1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S AE86-Largeport 4AGE 9.4:1 CR-264* Cams-TRD 4-2-1 Header-PR 8kg/mm front coilover/KYB AGX shock-TRD 6kg/mm rear spring/TRD 8-way adjust shock

WH95TE

#12

And all of those can bolt directly onto a 7afe to make it a 7age?

Kwanza26

#13

there were a LOT of different variations, not to mention valve covers on ALL of the 16V's were interchangeable, so telling the engine by the cover is a dumb way to go...

Bluetop = bigport /w small internals (early 84-86.5)
Redtop = bigport /w small internals (mid 86.5-87.5)
Redtop = bigport /w large internals (later 87.5-90.5)
Redtop = smallport /w large internals (later'er 90.5-92)
Supercharged bigport /w large internals (88-90.5)
Supercharged smallport /w large internals (90.5- mid 90's)
Silvertop 20V (early mid 90's)
Blacktop 20V (late 90's)

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

Kwanza26

#14

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QUOTE(WH95TE @ Jul 20, 2006 - 4:37 AM) [snapback]458409[/snapback]

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And all of those can bolt directly onto a 7afe to make it a 7age?

yes... if you're ok with having 7 something compression and 40hp...

It's not an intake where you can simply bolt-on and go. There's wiring to be done... pistons to be changed... let's just go all out and call it a rebuild.

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

WH95TE

#15

Oh so theres A LOT more too it lol. I really need to figure out what to do to my car to get some power. Full out swaps like the 3s seem out of the question for me.

Rexasaurus

#16

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QUOTE(Kwanza26 @ Jul 20, 2006 - 12:10 AM) [snapback]458433[/snapback]

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QUOTE(WH95TE @ Jul 20, 2006 - 4:37 AM) [snapback]458409[/snapback]

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And all of those can bolt directly onto a 7afe to make it a 7age?

yes... if you're ok with having 7 something compression and 40hp...

It's not an intake where you can simply bolt-on and go. There's wiring to be done... pistons to be changed... let's just go all out and call it a rebuild.

actually. if i remember correctly, bluetop head mated to the 7afe yields ~10:1 compression ratio. but if you really want to build a good motor you might as well match the 4age head by using 4age pistons and get some higher compression

This post has been edited by Rexasaurus: Jul 20, 2006 - 1:16 AM

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1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S AE86-Largeport 4AGE 9.4:1 CR-264* Cams-TRD 4-2-1 Header-PR 8kg/mm front coilover/KYB AGX shock-TRD 6kg/mm rear spring/TRD 8-way adjust shock

Kwanza26

#17

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QUOTE(Rexasaurus @ Jul 20, 2006 - 6:15 AM) [snapback]458461[/snapback]

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actually. if i remember correctly, bluetop head mated to the 7afe yields ~10:1 compression ratio. but if you really want to build a good motor you might as well match the 4age head by using 4age pistons and get some higher compression

You remember incorrectly. The 7AFE's stock pistons are dished and yield only 9:5 compression on the narrower, smaller 7AFE combustion chamber... the stock bigport pistons are flat and yield 9:4 compression... so if you put a head designed to make 9:4 compression with flat pistons with pistons that are dished... you make significantly less compression.

Easy way to see it... the 7AFE has a much smaller compression surface on the head, so the dishes in the pistons serve also as partial combustion chambers. The 4AGE does this entirely on the head, leaving the pistons flate... so if you put the 4AG head on the 7AFE pistons... you get really low compression... cheddar?

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

WH95TE

#18

So along with the head, what else do I need to make a 7age?

pure_dx

#19

$$$$ and lots of it, IHMO its not worth it mang

This post has been edited by pure_dx: Jul 20, 2006 - 4:34 PM

Rexasaurus

#20

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QUOTE(Kwanza26 @ Jul 20, 2006 - 8:01 AM) [snapback]458516[/snapback]

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QUOTE(Rexasaurus @ Jul 20, 2006 - 6:15 AM) [snapback]458461[/snapback]

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actually. if i remember correctly, bluetop head mated to the 7afe yields ~10:1 compression ratio. but if you really want to build a good motor you might as well match the 4age head by using 4age pistons and get some higher compression

You remember incorrectly. The 7AFE's stock pistons are dished and yield only 9:5 compression on the narrower, smaller 7AFE combustion chamber... the stock bigport pistons are flat and yield 9:4 compression... so if you put a head designed to make 9:4 compression with flat pistons with pistons that are dished... you make significantly less compression.

Easy way to see it... the 7AFE has a much smaller compression surface on the head, so the dishes in the pistons serve also as partial combustion chambers. The 4AGE does this entirely on the head, leaving the pistons flate... so if you put the 4AG head on the 7AFE pistons... you get really low compression... cheddar?

according to tech reference on club4ag, it says "All else being done, the engine should have 1800cc and compression ratio of between 9.8 and 11 depending on which piston and 4A-GE head you used." oh, and to add, i've ridden in several 7age powered ae86's, using totally stock 7afe bottom, with a largeport 4age head, didnt seem like it had "7" compression. i would also guess that the headgasket would play a role in that. dont know the stock thickness of the 7afe, but 4age has a 1.2mm stock gasket, and you can go all the way down to a .5mm, giving .7 more compression, then shave the head and get even more.

This post has been edited by Rexasaurus: Jul 20, 2006 - 4:59 PM

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1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S AE86-Largeport 4AGE 9.4:1 CR-264* Cams-TRD 4-2-1 Header-PR 8kg/mm front coilover/KYB AGX shock-TRD 6kg/mm rear spring/TRD 8-way adjust shock

Kwanza26

#21

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QUOTE(Rexasaurus @ Jul 20, 2006 - 9:55 PM) [snapback]458701[/snapback]

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according to tech reference on club4ag, it says "All else being done, the engine should have 1800cc and compression ratio of between 9.8 and 11 depending on which piston and 4A-GE head you used."

emphasis on "PISTON"... the stock 7AFE piston will dramatically lower compression, while the 9:4 bigport pistons will bump it up to about 9:8 because of the added stroke, and the 10:3 smallport pistons will be close to 11. Make sense yet?

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"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...