Fastbird

#1

I've heard talk of people thinking about it but have never seen any factual attempts. These things need a sixth gear.

I was pondering, and it probably wouldn't be toooooooo terribly difficult to have a bell housing adapter made for something like a 7th gen and then have a custom input shaft in a longer length made.

Are there any other ideas floating around out there?

WH95TE

#2

Would be neat.

dustinkemp

#3

i think you volunteered yourself lol

nah but it would be cool

Kwanza26

#4

yeah... but gearing would be very poor for the 5SFE. What's your reasoning behind the 6gc needing more gears?

As for your suggestion... it is possible, and none too difficult to make a custom bellhousing (removing the 7gc bellhousing) to mate to a 5SFE. The 7AFE can probably use its current bellhousing over the C160 gearset, which is very very similar to the AE111's C60.

---

"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

gt_driFFter

#5

I don't know if it makes a different, but he doesn't have a 5sfe, he has a 3sgte. I've heard the 7th gen tranny's are actually kind of weak.

Fastbird

#6

My reasoning is that on the highway I can't stand trying to maintain 80 MPH whilst turning 4000 RPM. If I could get an overdrive and cut that down some to the 2500 range, these things would be PERFECT on the highway.

What does toyota make in a transaxle configuration with a six speed??

Kwanza26

#7

>

QUOTE(Fastbird @ Aug 13, 2006 - 1:08 AM) [snapback]468310[/snapback]

>
My reasoning is that on the highway I can't stand trying to maintain 80 MPH whilst turning 4000 RPM. If I could get an overdrive and cut that down some to the 2500 range, these things would be PERFECT on the highway.

What does toyota make in a transaxle configuration with a six speed??

Toyota makes the C60/C160 and that's it. Regardless of having 6 gears or not... the C160/C60 final drive and gearing is very short and you'll still be at around 3500 rpms at 80mph in 6th gear... similar to what we are currently.

And no... it doesn't really make a big difference if he has a 3SGTE or not... in fact, the bigger the torque, the worse a short gear'ed tranny would be for it acceleration-wise. Pushing acceleration towards the top rpms negates that fat torque-band...

---

"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

lagos

#8

>

QUOTE

>My reasoning is that on the highway I can't stand trying to maintain 80 MPH whilst turning 4000 RPM

4grand is where all the magic happens on the higway. your tvis plates open up and the car comes alive! if anything i think the gearing is great on the highway, because you are alwasy in your power band.


you can alwasy change over to the mr2 tranny. it has taller gearing and lsd. that would seem like a more logical upgrade. i dont think i would trust the 7th gen tranny. you might also run into a lot of dumb issues like trying to find motor mounts that would work correctly or axels, that would make it more troubble then its worth.

---

15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned

playr158

#9

you don't need 6 gears...
we need taller gears...which all you need is someone to design a set of gears that you can swap out in your existing tranny...not a new one

the celica wasn't made to have the amount of power we are swapping into or for great highway cruising....its downfall is short gears

if someone could get a taller set of gears made that would be better leave 1st gear alone but make 2-5 taller..(my jetta is geared taller and i love it) cruising at 70mph at 3,000rpm is much better then the celica's 3,500 or so

my personal goal is to road coarse the celica once i finish so getting 2nd gear to reach almost 75mph at rediline, 3rd to reach about 100 @ redline, 4th about 140 and 5th about 180 would be great

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 12, 2006 - 9:56 PM

Dr_Tweak

#10

Using the 7th gen GTS tranny would pretty much be the only option, with a custom bellhousing, mounts, and axles. It would probably hold up under 250whp just fine, but as mentioned, the gearing is even shorter in the 6-speed than the 5-speed. The only option there would be to somehow increase the final drive, either with a custom gearset, or larger diameter tires....

-Doc

---

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com

j0e_p3t

#11

hasn't anyone tried swapping a 6 speed blacktop 4age?

---

ss-iii splitters and 404 skirts areon. which means i need to update my sig.

burneeed

#12

theres a guy in ... I think hes somewhere in europe who modifies their e153 to make it a 6 speed... but honestly I can only imagine How much money it would cost and shipping and what not... Im not real familiar with the topic....

But its been discused many times.. theres no 6spd trans to match up with a s series motor to work.

---

BANNED!

Silver94CelicaOwner

#13

Yeah, our cars really need a 6th gear or a much longer final drive....Unless you want to keep your engine at full hoot on a long trip at speed its going to get really old. Theres been countless times when I drive my car on the highway that I wish at around 80 I could shift into a 6th gear and be doing about 80mph at 3k or so.

Also consider this....When youre cruising at 4k RPMs theres so much unneccesary friction that you'll probably comsume more oil, and the second you lift off the throttle it becomes massive ammounts of vacuum that'll suck oil the PCV and such, not to mention the higher temps at cruising speeds. I never liked it about my GT, but unfortunately the only fixes would be VERY expensive.

The best solution is probably E153 from a Camry, MR2, or Solara. It's OEM and affordable, and is probably as good as we can get to having a cost-efficient transmission that is good for cruising on the highway. If we could get a transmission that was custom geared though, that would be sick.....Theres places that can do such work but it'll cost a ton of money.

---

3rd gen ST205 3SGTE - Alive and boosting.

DEAMON

#14

how much money and who woudl make it

the 7th gen trany out of the GTS would fit a 7AFE but there might be problems with the hubs & drive shaft

hitcachi

#15

Best solution and fastest way to a 6 speed celica is.... take out the 3S and swap in teh 2ZZ engine and tranny. The Doc knows how. There was a huge ass debate thread on this a while back.

---

Teh Celica sleeps for Winter '06. Suspension overhaul begins........

playr158

#16

like i already said someone needs to take the OEM gear ratio #s outta an E153 or S54 (both would be nice) and start talking to a shop that cuts gears..and discuss about making LONGER gear ratios..in theory it should be a bolt in application and all you need to do is swap out your gears in the existing bell housing (yes this has been done before)
i'm not sure if you could fit a 6th gear...but lengthening gears 2-5 is doable probably at the cost of a few hundred dollars

o0black0o

#17

>

QUOTE(Fastbird @ Aug 12, 2006 - 8:08 PM) [snapback]468310[/snapback]

>
My reasoning is that on the highway I can't stand trying to maintain 80 MPH whilst turning 4000 RPM. If I could get an overdrive and cut that down some to the 2500 range, these things would be PERFECT on the highway.

What does toyota make in a transaxle configuration with a six speed??

My Auto ST has OD. I hit 80 and im runnig around 4k I belive. I don't remeber off the top of my head. I know your talking about standard though.

Fastbird

#18

Does anyone have the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 5S-FE 5 Speed and the E153 transmissions handy for comparison??

celicaST

#19

>

QUOTE(Fastbird @ Aug 15, 2006 - 6:44 AM) [snapback]469195[/snapback]

>
Does anyone have the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 5S-FE 5 Speed and the E153 transmissions handy for comparison??

here you go,

s54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
e153: 3.230, 1.913, 1.258, 0.918, 0.731 / FD: 3.933, 4.285

the final drive ratio differed based on application, the bold are 6gc (i think) and mr2 sw20 turbo.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Aug 15, 2006 - 9:54 AM

---

I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra scary to me, because there's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside.

x_itchy_b_x

#20

id buy a longer finally gear. 80mph at 4k sucks when trying to cruise not race. being in a power band is one thing reving the crap out of your motor and sucking down gas is another.

---

Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.

Kadett

#21

>

QUOTE(celicaST @ Aug 15, 2006 - 4:38 PM) [snapback]469212[/snapback]

>
>

QUOTE(Fastbird @ Aug 15, 2006 - 6:44 AM) [snapback]469195[/snapback]

>
Does anyone have the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 5S-FE 5 Speed and the E153 transmissions handy for comparison??

here you go,

s54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
e153: 3.230, 1.913, 1.258, 0.918, 0.731 / FD: 3.933, 4.285

the final drive ratio differed based on application, the bold are 6gc (i think) and mr2 sw20 turbo.

US spec GT have the 4.176 Final Drive
EU/JDM spec GT (3S-GE) have the 3.944 Final Drive.

The 7th gen gearbox is really weak and cant sustain to much horsepower. Going to 250 bhp is already pushing it. Getting a LSD + Radials with 250 bhp = bye bye tranny.

With my car I drive 75 mph @ 3200-3300 rpm.
On the 7th gen it would be 2800 rpm. Friend of mine got one.

For gas consumption it would be benifitial but in terms of power you would be better of with the GT or MR2T tranny. Best option would be the GT4 gearbox converted to 2WD but I only know of 2-3 cases that have succesfully done this.

Theorotical top speed of my car with a 225/40/18 tyre would be 160-163 mph. I speed that I will never reach or want to reach with my Celica because its not meant for it (2wd plateau, different weight balance etc etc)

---

JDM Powerplant installed, BPU coming very soon!

burneeed

#22

>

QUOTE(playr158 @ Aug 15, 2006 - 1:41 AM) [snapback]469143[/snapback]

>
like i already said someone needs to take the OEM gear ratio #s outta an E153 or S54 (both would be nice) and start talking to a shop that cuts gears..and discuss about making LONGER gear ratios..in theory it should be a bolt in application and all you need to do is swap out your gears in the existing bell housing (yes this has been done before)
i'm not sure if you could fit a 6th gear...but lengthening gears 2-5 is doable probably at the cost of a few hundred dollars

man whata mess that would be honestly....

It would be nice if they made the s series trans in a 6th gear. The damn gearing is so short a 3sgte swapped celica with a s trans doesnt make it real good economy wise when your crusing around on the highway at 4k rpms.. compares to when I swapped he e153 I was at 65mph in 2500-2700 rpms

---

BANNED!

dutchboy

#23

Could you put the e153 5th gear in the ST's C52 tranny or would that cause problems with the synchro?

Would you need to make a custom synhro?

Would love to get the revs down for highway driving.

You may be able to tell that I don't know a lot, just what I want to do

mandrek

#24

im quite curiouse about this too.. is it not posible to just swap out the fith gear??

---

"The buy my stuff, for help make great finish project of celica fund!"

frosty

#25

>

QUOTE(playr158 @ Aug 15, 2006 - 6:41 AM) [snapback]469143[/snapback]

>
like i already said someone needs to take the OEM gear ratio #s outta an E153 or S54 (both would be nice) and start talking to a shop that cuts gears..and discuss about making LONGER gear ratios..in theory it should be a bolt in application and all you need to do is swap out your gears in the existing bell housing (yes this has been done before)
i'm not sure if you could fit a 6th gear...but lengthening gears 2-5 is doable probably at the cost of a few hundred dollars

The thought of a 6th gear is more for fun, but if I could have gears 2-5 lengthened then I would be content!

---

CLOSED on 25 acres!-shop coming soon....

twitchh17

#26

>

QUOTE(frosty @ Oct 10, 2007 - 8:46 AM) [snapback]603596[/snapback]

>
>

QUOTE(playr158 @ Aug 15, 2006 - 6:41 AM) [snapback]469143[/snapback]

>
like i already said someone needs to take the OEM gear ratio #s outta an E153 or S54 (both would be nice) and start talking to a shop that cuts gears..and discuss about making LONGER gear ratios..in theory it should be a bolt in application and all you need to do is swap out your gears in the existing bell housing (yes this has been done before)
i'm not sure if you could fit a 6th gear...but lengthening gears 2-5 is doable probably at the cost of a few hundred dollars

The thought of a 6th gear is more for fun, but if I could have gears 2-5 lengthened then I would be content!

frosty your hairs crazy! i like your hood too

This post has been edited by twitchh17: Oct 16, 2007 - 7:09 PM

dutchboy

#27

>

QUOTE (dutchboy @ Jun 28, 2007 - 4:41 PM)

>Could you put the e153 5th gear in the ST's C52 tranny or would that cause problems with the synchro?

Would you need to make a custom synhro?

Would love to get the revs down for highway driving.

You may be able to tell that I don't know a lot, just what I want to do

Anybody know if you would need a custom synchro if you changed 5th gear?

Is the shaft the same size on c52 and e153?

What about .706 4th gear from the GT Auto transmission? Could this be used for 5th gear in a manual?

Any OEM toyota 5th gears that come under the .713 e153 5th, or .706 GT Auto 4th gear?

The e153 gear would drop the RPMs by 375, which is a good start, a 600 RPM drop would be ideal (engine gets loud after 2800 RPM).


The ST has so much potential for gas mileage, it's just hampered by the gearing (which I believe was designed for Japanese highways, with a 60MPH speed limit).

I am also interested in ride comfort, the engine gets so loud at highway speeds (sometimes I'll wear earplugs!) Would like to improve this factor as well. May be solved by going back to stock airbox w/ the lower resonator box reinstalled.

richee3

#28

Man, a 6 speed would be crazy... I'd love to have one. I kinda tend to agree with everyone else on here though, that I'd rather just have all my gears lengthened. INCLUDING 1st. 1st has good acceleration, but it's too short. Has anybody else noticed that, on a GT that first gear is gone before you ever get a chance to get anywhere? Oh well. I'm eventually going to put a 3S-GE BEAMS in my car, after I get some money. I'm leaving everything alone until I get that. Can anybody tell me how the gearing on that is, if I'll be doing any better than my 5S?

---

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.

Daftboy

#29

I believe that the blacktop 4age 6 speed fits right up to the 7afe...only thing I heard though is that tranny is like glass

---

--------------------------------私は銀行に漂う,TRDInspired

delusionz

#30

i can only think of trying bigger wheels and a speedometer corrector...

but i'd say the 6 speed in those sort of cars are designed to bring the gears in between first and final gear closer together to aid street acceleration (drivability) of torqueless motors and wont bring your cruising revs down, instead it'll give u a 5th gear which feels like ur old 4th gear.

my flatmates bz-r levin revs anywhere between 1 and 2 thou RPM higher than my car does thru its 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gears at street driving speeds but then it's 6th gear brings its revs down to match my 5th gear, eg 3k and a bit at 100 kph.

---

Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs