>
Because anyone who has driven a 7th gen knows that the only thing quality on that car is the motor. It's almost Kia quality. On top of that, you can still buy a wrecked car with a 2zzge motor and swap it cheaper than you could buy a nice GT-S Celica. If you had a sold 6th gen with bad motor, like I did, it wouldn't be a bad option. I rebuilt my 5sfe and am more than happy with it though. I mostly did that because I like racing SoloII and want to stay competitive in the STS class. If I swapped I would have moved to SM were I wouldn't stand a chance. But if I had just a street car, or had the money to build a nice SM class car, I would most likely use the 2zzge. I would be tossed up between the 4age and 2zzge for the race car though.

>

that depends on who is doing the swap. if have to pay somone to do the swap, then the costs would quickly add up. you would be better off selling the 6th gen and putting that money down on a 7th gen. then as a fun project you could go around replacing all the KIA parts on the 7th gen with aftermarket goodies.

>
For a lot of poeple that probibly is the best option. Most are happy with the 7th gen quality and with slowly replacing everything. And most aren't going to do their own swaps. I would do my own swap. I could get the motor and trans for about $1000 together. Then add another $2000 for odds and ends. Plus the value of my car, which is something like $5000. That's $8K. You could probibly get a 7th gen for that, but you still wouldn't have the 6th gen quality on build. I figure it would be just as much work to stop the rattles in the 7th gen. I could live with the interior. Heck, it really might be a better rote to get a 7th gen and start building. I have no overwhelming love for the 6gcs. I love my car, but that's because it's mine. I still think that because my car is solid, if my motor was bad it wouldn't be a bad swap. Same thing as the 3sgte. The 3sgte is just better suited for drag racing in a Celica with out AWD. But, if you are going to compare the swaps, the 3sgte has a big leg up for a base or if intended on drag. But the 2zzge's better flowing head would make better power for other types of racing if it's in NA or turbo form. Eitherway, you're building the bottem end up. And an advantage to the 2zzge is you can get parts in America from your local auto parts store.

>

>

i was talking about: the lift point is lowered to 5700 rpm and the redline raised to 8700 rpm

i know its the same motor.

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Feb 11, 2007 - 12:34 AM

a 6th gen celica hatch is 2400lbs
a 6th gen celica coupe is 2300lbs
i dont know if it depend on the engine...maybe 5sfe is heavier than the 7afe? maybe

a 7th gen celica weighs 2400lbs

a 2nd gen mr2 weighs 2600lbs

mrs weighs like 2200lbs i think....that's what i've heard

acura integra weighs 2500lbs (i put this down cause people bitch about how light these dumb cars and how they weigh just like their brother civic and later find out they're not exactly light - how ignorant!).

a 6th gen celica is NOT heavy like the s13 or s14. my friend's s13 coupe weighed 2700lbs. pretty heavy if you ask me. a stock hatch is also 2700lbs (weighed stock at weigh station - this is for 89-94 240sx)

a 95-98 240sx weighs roughly 50lbs more than the last gen.

anyways i know because these cars had been weighed and saw em'...yes they respond well to mods unlike the 6gc but w/e....

the 2zz, imo, is a great motor...it responds well to mods. if you have money, anything is possible.... i also like the interior, very nice. the seats are incredibly nice and comfortable.

This post has been edited by block: Feb 11, 2007 - 9:36 PM

the 2zz in the Elise and Exige is the same, with just a more aggressive secondary cam shaft so the VVT-I kicks in a few hundred rpm sooner nothing crazy. But the 2zz has no low end TQ thats why u often see superchargers and not turbo charges on the 2zz, the Lotus Exige has a Supercharger on it, and is very detuned and makes about 230 hp and almost 170 foot pounds of tq. but all in all a very fun power plant 2 have in any light car.

Sorry to bring up an old thread from a month ago, but for a definite accepted weight of any of these cars, check out the class spec sheets from SCCA or NASA. 7th gen celica is in ITR, 6gc might be in ITA or ITB, same with various gen mr2's(i haven't looked at them in a while), but they should all be in Production classes if that makes things easier...

Anyways, Don't trust what you read on Edmunds or KBB, although they may do independant weighing, you don't know if they weigh wet or a fully-optioned model or with golf clubs or whatever. SCCA lists base model dry weights.

Also, the 2zz is very competent for what it was designed for. It's comparable to a 4age(w/o TVIS) in the lower rev range, and beats it in the higher range. It's not as peaky as some people might think, only to those who prefer the torquey lethargic feel of low revving engines(my opinion:). And the Exige has an option package for the superchargerwhich, which is not really detuned at all actually. Standard Exiges are like a hardtop elise with better aero.

Once again, sorry for bringing up an old thread, I thought that since everybody had differing idea's about weight for these cars, at least some sanctioning auto racing body would have info we can all agree on.

p.s.
I campaign an FC rx7 in ITS so if you see me, say hi! I can't wear a 6gc decal since... well... ya know... mazda and toyota's don't mix well sometimes... but i love this site anyways!

>

There is no such thing as secondary camshafts in a 2ZZGE.
It has secondary cam LOBES.
Which have nothing to do with the VVTi.
The larger lobes are the L [Lift].
VVTi is adjustable valve timing and only valve timing.
The camshaft itself has nothing to do with when the timing is changed, or by how much.
The ECU determines this.

And the L has nothing to do with when it comes on either.
That is soley decided by the ECU. It has a set point programmed into it.

There is no such thing as secondary camshafts in a 2ZZGE.
It has secondary cam LOBES.
Which have nothing to do with the VVTi.
The larger lobes are the L [Lift].
VVTi is adjustable valve timing and only valve timing.
The camshaft itself has nothing to do with when the timing is changed, or by how much.
The ECU determines this.

And the L has nothing to do with when it comes on either.
That is soley decided by the ECU. It has a set point programmed into it.
[/quote]

i meant "lobes" each of the 2 cams have secondary profiles, which in the vvt-"i" are continuously variable. all lotus does is make some changes 2 the ECU and even out the hp and tq cuves.

>

But they're not....
The secondary lobes are one set profile.
The VVTi has NOTHING to do with the lobes. The lobes are the L [lift] and ONLY the L.
VVTi is on the end of the camshafts, where the cam gears are.
THAT is what is continuously variable.
And it varies the valve timing, not the lift. Or the secondary cam lobe.

retuned 2zz to get 10more hp or w/e and raised redline. . .

no biggy.

7th gen is lighter than us, not the best idea for a swap IMO, especially since the CR is high.
good choice if you aren't trying to set any speed records, but be a peppy NA...

>
you can retune that with the hydra ems standalone like the in the vid, any 2zzge can put down those power numbers with similar mods to that one from the video.

>
That's what I thought too, put it's not true. The 7th gen is listed as 2425 for the hatch. And the 6th gen is listed as 2755 Vert, 2395 Coupe, and 2415 Hatch. So if that's your reason for not doing the swap, it's time to find a new one. I'll always back up that motor just because I like high reving NA power.
6th Gen
7th Gen

>


r those numbers real cus i always thought 6gc hatches were 2580 or at least thats what edmunds, autotrader, and kbb have them at

>
Those sites are showing higher numbers for the 6th gen, and KKB shows higher on the 7th. It shows 2560 for 6th and 2500 for 7th. I think these weight differences would be lessend when going from an iron to aluminum block too. Only real way to check is to get cars and measure them, or get the specs from Toyota.

iunno...
i can't find a site that lists all weights that i trust...
but from comparison, a s14 is 2800ish i believe
a mr2 is 2600ish i thought. . .
and i don't see a celica being lighter than a mr2, but i do see it being around a S14. . .

iunno though. . .

>
Our engine alone is within a couple lbs. of a LS1 The 5SFE is an Iron block I4 and weighs around 420lbs while the LS1 is an all aluminum V8!

iirc the 6th gen celica hatch and 7th gen corolla sedan weigh almost the same.

if you want a 2zz powered celica, why not just buy a used 7th gen? they are pretty cheap these days and you would be getting a newer car. you would get pretty much the same performance as you would if you swapped it, but without the hassle.

>

x2

the wireing from the zz motors to the sfe is just kinda...ever so slightly (sarcasm) harder then it should be.

i toyed with this idea, just the electrical alone will drive u bannanas

>
Because anyone who has driven a 7th gen knows that the only thing quality on that car is the motor. It's almost Kia quality. On top of that, you can still buy a wrecked car with a 2zzge motor and swap it cheaper than you could buy a nice GT-S Celica. If you had a sold 6th gen with bad motor, like I did, it wouldn't be a bad option. I rebuilt my 5sfe and am more than happy with it though. I mostly did that because I like racing SoloII and want to stay competitive in the STS class. If I swapped I would have moved to SM were I wouldn't stand a chance. But if I had just a street car, or had the money to build a nice SM class car, I would most likely use the 2zzge. I would be tossed up between the 4age and 2zzge for the race car though.

>

that depends on who is doing the swap. if have to pay somone to do the swap, then the costs would quickly add up. you would be better off selling the 6th gen and putting that money down on a 7th gen. then as a fun project you could go around replacing all the KIA parts on the 7th gen with aftermarket goodies.

>
For a lot of poeple that probibly is the best option. Most are happy with the 7th gen quality and with slowly replacing everything. And most aren't going to do their own swaps. I would do my own swap. I could get the motor and trans for about $1000 together. Then add another $2000 for odds and ends. Plus the value of my car, which is something like $5000. That's $8K. You could probibly get a 7th gen for that, but you still wouldn't have the 6th gen quality on build. I figure it would be just as much work to stop the rattles in the 7th gen. I could live with the interior. Heck, it really might be a better rote to get a 7th gen and start building. I have no overwhelming love for the 6gcs. I love my car, but that's because it's mine. I still think that because my car is solid, if my motor was bad it wouldn't be a bad swap. Same thing as the 3sgte. The 3sgte is just better suited for drag racing in a Celica with out AWD. But, if you are going to compare the swaps, the 3sgte has a big leg up for a base or if intended on drag. But the 2zzge's better flowing head would make better power for other types of racing if it's in NA or turbo form. Eitherway, you're building the bottem end up. And an advantage to the 2zzge is you can get parts in America from your local auto parts store.

>

>

i was talking about: the lift point is lowered to 5700 rpm and the redline raised to 8700 rpm

i know its the same motor.

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Feb 11, 2007 - 12:34 AM

a 6th gen celica hatch is 2400lbs
a 6th gen celica coupe is 2300lbs
i dont know if it depend on the engine...maybe 5sfe is heavier than the 7afe? maybe

a 7th gen celica weighs 2400lbs

a 2nd gen mr2 weighs 2600lbs

mrs weighs like 2200lbs i think....that's what i've heard

acura integra weighs 2500lbs (i put this down cause people bitch about how light these dumb cars and how they weigh just like their brother civic and later find out they're not exactly light - how ignorant!).

a 6th gen celica is NOT heavy like the s13 or s14. my friend's s13 coupe weighed 2700lbs. pretty heavy if you ask me. a stock hatch is also 2700lbs (weighed stock at weigh station - this is for 89-94 240sx)

a 95-98 240sx weighs roughly 50lbs more than the last gen.

anyways i know because these cars had been weighed and saw em'...yes they respond well to mods unlike the 6gc but w/e....

the 2zz, imo, is a great motor...it responds well to mods. if you have money, anything is possible.... i also like the interior, very nice. the seats are incredibly nice and comfortable.

This post has been edited by block: Feb 11, 2007 - 9:36 PM

the 2zz in the Elise and Exige is the same, with just a more aggressive secondary cam shaft so the VVT-I kicks in a few hundred rpm sooner nothing crazy. But the 2zz has no low end TQ thats why u often see superchargers and not turbo charges on the 2zz, the Lotus Exige has a Supercharger on it, and is very detuned and makes about 230 hp and almost 170 foot pounds of tq. but all in all a very fun power plant 2 have in any light car.

Sorry to bring up an old thread from a month ago, but for a definite accepted weight of any of these cars, check out the class spec sheets from SCCA or NASA. 7th gen celica is in ITR, 6gc might be in ITA or ITB, same with various gen mr2's(i haven't looked at them in a while), but they should all be in Production classes if that makes things easier...

Anyways, Don't trust what you read on Edmunds or KBB, although they may do independant weighing, you don't know if they weigh wet or a fully-optioned model or with golf clubs or whatever. SCCA lists base model dry weights.

Also, the 2zz is very competent for what it was designed for. It's comparable to a 4age(w/o TVIS) in the lower rev range, and beats it in the higher range. It's not as peaky as some people might think, only to those who prefer the torquey lethargic feel of low revving engines(my opinion:). And the Exige has an option package for the superchargerwhich, which is not really detuned at all actually. Standard Exiges are like a hardtop elise with better aero.

Once again, sorry for bringing up an old thread, I thought that since everybody had differing idea's about weight for these cars, at least some sanctioning auto racing body would have info we can all agree on.

p.s.
I campaign an FC rx7 in ITS so if you see me, say hi! I can't wear a 6gc decal since... well... ya know... mazda and toyota's don't mix well sometimes... but i love this site anyways!

>

There is no such thing as secondary camshafts in a 2ZZGE.
It has secondary cam LOBES.
Which have nothing to do with the VVTi.
The larger lobes are the L [Lift].
VVTi is adjustable valve timing and only valve timing.
The camshaft itself has nothing to do with when the timing is changed, or by how much.
The ECU determines this.

And the L has nothing to do with when it comes on either.
That is soley decided by the ECU. It has a set point programmed into it.

There is no such thing as secondary camshafts in a 2ZZGE.
It has secondary cam LOBES.
Which have nothing to do with the VVTi.
The larger lobes are the L [Lift].
VVTi is adjustable valve timing and only valve timing.
The camshaft itself has nothing to do with when the timing is changed, or by how much.
The ECU determines this.

And the L has nothing to do with when it comes on either.
That is soley decided by the ECU. It has a set point programmed into it.
[/quote]

i meant "lobes" each of the 2 cams have secondary profiles, which in the vvt-"i" are continuously variable. all lotus does is make some changes 2 the ECU and even out the hp and tq cuves.

>

But they're not....
The secondary lobes are one set profile.
The VVTi has NOTHING to do with the lobes. The lobes are the L [lift] and ONLY the L.
VVTi is on the end of the camshafts, where the cam gears are.
THAT is what is continuously variable.
And it varies the valve timing, not the lift. Or the secondary cam lobe.