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Polyurethane Filled Motor Mounts - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #45273 27 posts Started by WannabeGT4
WannabeGT4
#1
There has been a gross understatement concerning the amount of vibration that is transfered to the cabin when using polyurethane motor mounts.

That is all.
Project ST204.5 99.88946% complete...
Dr_Tweak
#2
I recently took a customer for a ride in a 3SGTE swapped Celica, with the poly inserts. I personally feel that it's fine, I hardly notice a difference, but the vibration was such that it convinced him that he would never want a 3SGTE in his car, even though I reassured him that with stock mounts the vibration is not present.

So... yeah.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 10, 2007 - 12:41 AM
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
jgreening
#3
Mine weren't bad at all. It depends on what is used.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
lagos
#4
i have the ones from kirk. i noticed some slight steering wheel vibration for the first few weeks after installing them as well as a few slight noises from the front bumper. most that stuff smoothed out after a few weeks of driving. besides that, its nothing horrible.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
Punisher
#5
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QUOTE(lagos @ Feb 10, 2007 - 12:40 AM) [snapback]525630[/snapback]
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i have the ones from kirk. i noticed some slight steering wheel vibration for the first few weeks after installing them as well as a few slight noises from the front bumper. most that stuff smoothed out after a few weeks of driving. besides that, its nothing horrible.


The vibration for me on the Kirk mounts isn't so bad once the engine/bay is all nice and warm.. but on a cold morning ... the vibration is horrible.. it's so annoying.. everything buzz's.. I'm only using rear mount inserts too... I bet if I just had the inserts on the front the vibration wouldn't be soo bad.. but I was trying to get the back of the motor to stop flopping around so the exhaust would stop smacking the rear cross member.
87 4runner DLX 22re, 5spd, 4.30gr, 4" lift, 30" tires, HID w/ Projectors, 6spkr + sub, custom exhaust, 94 celica leather seats, SR5 gauge cluster and clinometer. Future engine swap... possibly a 2jzge.
malecrod
#6
^^^same here. Initially I installed both the front and rear kirk's inserts. The vibration was not all that bad while driving. But it was a little too much for me at idle (buzzing interior panels), so I took the front one off and left the rear one in. Now the vibration is very minimal, besides I can't really tell the difference btn using both inserts and just the rear inserts.
3sgteing...burns twice as bright, lasts half as long."The weight of the world is love. Under the burden of solitude, under the burden of dissatisfaction."-Allen Ginsberg-
x_itchy_b_x
#7
i like the vibrations lol. reminds me of a big mac truck.
Visit My Automotive & Tech Blog.
JesterDC
#8
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QUOTE(malecrod @ Feb 10, 2007 - 2:07 PM) [snapback]525711[/snapback]
>
^^^same here. Initially I installed both the front and rear kirk's inserts. The vibration was not all that bad while driving. But it was a little too much for me at idle (buzzing interior panels), so I took the front one off and left the rear one in. Now the vibration is very minimal, besides I can't really tell the difference btn using both inserts and just the rear inserts.

Wouldn't having only one insert on/in put more stress on the corresponding(front-back, left-right) stock mount? Just wondering if that's gonna cause problems...
bindertch
#9
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QUOTE(Punisher @ Feb 9, 2007 - 10:46 PM) [snapback]525633[/snapback]
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QUOTE(lagos @ Feb 10, 2007 - 12:40 AM) [snapback]525630[/snapback]
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i have the ones from kirk. i noticed some slight steering wheel vibration for the first few weeks after installing them as well as a few slight noises from the front bumper. most that stuff smoothed out after a few weeks of driving. besides that, its nothing horrible.


The vibration for me on the Kirk mounts isn't so bad once the engine/bay is all nice and warm.. but on a cold morning ... the vibration is horrible.. it's so annoying.. everything buzz's.. I'm only using rear mount inserts too... I bet if I just had the inserts on the front the vibration wouldn't be soo bad.. but I was trying to get the back of the motor to stop flopping around so the exhaust would stop smacking the rear cross member.



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QUOTE(JesterDC @ Feb 10, 2007 - 2:35 PM) [snapback]525755[/snapback]
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QUOTE(malecrod @ Feb 10, 2007 - 2:07 PM) [snapback]525711[/snapback]
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^^^same here. Initially I installed both the front and rear kirk's inserts. The vibration was not all that bad while driving. But it was a little too much for me at idle (buzzing interior panels), so I took the front one off and left the rear one in. Now the vibration is very minimal, besides I can't really tell the difference btn using both inserts and just the rear inserts.

Wouldn't having only one insert on/in put more stress on the corresponding(front-back, left-right) stock mount? Just wondering if that's gonna cause problems...


Yes only having one mount that is polyurethane will put more stress on the other non poly mounts. It will likely wear the stock mount out faster. I would recommend evening it out or go to stock.
lagos
#10
how do you figure that? the only thing that will kill a stock motor mount is the weight and rocking of the motor. having just one poly mount in there will still help reduce the rocking and stress on the other mount.

btw, poly mounts are almost a must on a swap. before i bought my inserts, i would go through the stock motor mounts about once a year. they just couldnt handle the weight and torque of the motor for long. the stock 3s even has a torque bar to help keep the motor from moving around too much, but it wont fit on our 6th gens.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 10, 2007 - 5:17 PM
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
quicknstyle
#11
i have always wondered what about the people who use that 3m injection stuff on mounts to stiffen them up? anyone ever heard of this, tried it, etc?
Punisher
#12
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QUOTE(quicknstyle @ Feb 10, 2007 - 8:42 PM) [snapback]525795[/snapback]
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i have always wondered what about the people who use that 3m injection stuff on mounts to stiffen them up? anyone ever heard of this, tried it, etc?



I used it on my 5th gen GTS.. front and rear.. it worked really well.. they are still in good condition and it didn't add much vibration at all. The only way to do it and have it work well is to clean the mounts out real well.. the rubber n what not.. then layer the 3m window weld in .. shallow layers let them cure.. just keep stacking it.. Expect your car to be down for 2 days .. best to get spare mounts. But once it's done you'll never need to worry about mounts again.
87 4runner DLX 22re, 5spd, 4.30gr, 4" lift, 30" tires, HID w/ Projectors, 6spkr + sub, custom exhaust, 94 celica leather seats, SR5 gauge cluster and clinometer. Future engine swap... possibly a 2jzge.
Jen
#13
This guy I know has solid aluminum mounts. Whenever I'm in his car, it's my own personal vibrator.
YoungSurvival.Org-Celica traded for.. 350z.. traded for Mazda5.. soccer mom!
easternpiro1
#14
yeah i have to agree that they are worrysome on cold mornings...i thought something was wrong with the car for the LONGEST! i was like GOD she dosent like cold mornings lol


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QUOTE(Jen @ Feb 11, 2007 - 1:45 AM) [snapback]525869[/snapback]
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This guy I know has solid aluminum mounts. Whenever I'm in his car, it's my own personal vibrator.






woot.gif woot.gif woot.gif thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif woot.gif woot.gif woot.gif bowdown.gif




QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
bindertch
#15
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QUOTE(lagos @ Feb 10, 2007 - 3:15 PM) [snapback]525763[/snapback]
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how do you figure that? the only thing that will kill a stock motor mount is the weight and rocking of the motor. having just one poly mount in there will still help reduce the rocking and stress on the other mount.



Well stock both mounts would be taking up the motion. If you have one softer than the other then that one will be getting the most abuse.
jgreening
#16
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QUOTE(Punisher @ Feb 11, 2007 - 12:42 AM) [snapback]525868[/snapback]
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QUOTE(quicknstyle @ Feb 10, 2007 - 8:42 PM) [snapback]525795[/snapback]
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i have always wondered what about the people who use that 3m injection stuff on mounts to stiffen them up? anyone ever heard of this, tried it, etc?



I used it on my 5th gen GTS.. front and rear.. it worked really well.. they are still in good condition and it didn't add much vibration at all. The only way to do it and have it work well is to clean the mounts out real well.. the rubber n what not.. then layer the 3m window weld in .. shallow layers let them cure.. just keep stacking it.. Expect your car to be down for 2 days .. best to get spare mounts. But once it's done you'll never need to worry about mounts again.


I would not use window weld. Do a search on Celicatech. Chris D started a nice thread about the different options for materials for home made mounts. I used the liquid stuff mentioned in the thread - I forget the name of it right now and my mounts turned out great. I did not take the original rubber out but simply added the urethane to the existing mount. My theory for this was that I wanted a mount that had a shore hardness of about A75 to A80 and the material I purchased only came in A90. So, by leaving the stock rubber in there, I was able to effectively reduce the hardness of the entire mount. In my opinion, Kirk's inserts would save some time and hassel and you would probably never have to worry about them wearing. Most "home options" will wear at some point. However, it sounds like they are probably a little hard for most daily drivers.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Feb 11, 2007 - 2:51 PM
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
phattyduck
#17
>
QUOTE(Jen @ Feb 10, 2007 - 10:45 PM) [snapback]525869[/snapback]
>
This guy I know has solid aluminum mounts. Whenever I'm in his car, it's my own personal vibrator.
Lol... for some reason, my GF like sitting in my WRX with the stiffer motor mounts while its idling... laugh.gif biggrin.gif

I think the final word on this thread is: Everyone has a different tolerance for vibration on their cars. I personally find the increase in throttle and shifting control to be worth the increase in NVH. smile.gif

-Charlie
2003 Subaru WRX Wagon1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid1988 Camry Alltrac LE - BEAMS swap started
southwest2118
#18
ya'll send one of those girrr.....oh..oh..i mean ......i mean....mounts my way. tongue.gif
CilverSeliST205
#19
Anyone wants me to make them brackets for adjustable ingalls damper (rsx version) ? is there any negatives to mounting a damper between strut top and alternator bracket? (kidna diagonal... should it be more front to back dampening or side to side?)
QUOTE(tufy @ Jul 19, 2006 - 7:40 AM) [snapback]458074[/snapback]i dont drive fast, i just fly low
playr158
#20
the motor will rock more front to back considering the way it is mounted..

you you might want to look into a radiator support to motor or firewall to motor type for direct motion or a angular might work as well
Bigmeanbulldog55
#21
I've had the home-made poly mounts and they shook better bad. I now have mounts that are filled with auto body panel glue. It's a really stiff rubber stuff. This combined with my new work on the motor made the thing shake like crazy when it's cold. Anything under 7-8 hundred rpm is wear the problem is. I don't mind it, but my girlfriend keeps bitching about it. She complains about how nice the car was when I got it and now I've made it too loud, I've made it so stiff that it rides bad, and it shakes when we stop at a light. But it's faster. lol
Live Free, Be Happy
playr158
#22
anything under 700-800 rpm?
dude my car doesn't even idle that low....

but haha speed > comfort

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 12, 2007 - 12:30 PM
CilverSeliST205
#23
Guys with vibration noises - consider getting a stethoscope and lining surfaces of vibrating parts with minimal ammounts of high duty foam - my interior plastic pieces were lined around the edges (not visibly) to prevent rattling caused by my subwoofer
QUOTE(tufy @ Jul 19, 2006 - 7:40 AM) [snapback]458074[/snapback]i dont drive fast, i just fly low
Coomer
#24
My mounts have been filled with Window Weld for a couple years and they've held up great, and there's no vibration either.

For a while, I had hard urethane mounts on my old Sentra SE-R, and the vibration was too much for me so I went back to stock mounts.
New Toyota project coming soon...
snapshotgt
#25
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QUOTE(jgreening @ Feb 11, 2007 - 12:02 PM) [snapback]525931[/snapback]
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QUOTE(Punisher @ Feb 11, 2007 - 12:42 AM) [snapback]525868[/snapback]
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QUOTE(quicknstyle @ Feb 10, 2007 - 8:42 PM) [snapback]525795[/snapback]
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i have always wondered what about the people who use that 3m injection stuff on mounts to stiffen them up? anyone ever heard of this, tried it, etc?



I used it on my 5th gen GTS.. front and rear.. it worked really well.. they are still in good condition and it didn't add much vibration at all. The only way to do it and have it work well is to clean the mounts out real well.. the rubber n what not.. then layer the 3m window weld in .. shallow layers let them cure.. just keep stacking it.. Expect your car to be down for 2 days .. best to get spare mounts. But once it's done you'll never need to worry about mounts again.


I would not use window weld. Do a search on Celicatech. Chris D started a nice thread about the different options for materials for home made mounts. I used the liquid stuff mentioned in the thread - I forget the name of it right now and my mounts turned out great. I did not take the original rubber out but simply added the urethane to the existing mount. My theory for this was that I wanted a mount that had a shore hardness of about A75 to A80 and the material I purchased only came in A90. So, by leaving the stock rubber in there, I was able to effectively reduce the hardness of the entire mount. In my opinion, Kirk's inserts would save some time and hassel and you would probably never have to worry about them wearing. Most "home options" will wear at some point. However, it sounds like they are probably a little hard for most daily drivers.


I would assumed you would have used speedsource's ONE PIECE poly mounts? They're A LOT different than the kirk 2 piece inserts ..
Past: V6 Swapped 6G Celica, E46 BMW M3, Jeep Wrangler TJCurrent: 850rwhp C6 Corvette Grandsport, Gen1 6.2L Ford Raptor
jgreening
#26
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QUOTE(snapshotgt @ Feb 13, 2007 - 8:27 PM) [snapback]526642[/snapback]
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QUOTE(jgreening @ Feb 11, 2007 - 12:02 PM) [snapback]525931[/snapback]
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QUOTE(Punisher @ Feb 11, 2007 - 12:42 AM) [snapback]525868[/snapback]
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QUOTE(quicknstyle @ Feb 10, 2007 - 8:42 PM) [snapback]525795[/snapback]
>
i have always wondered what about the people who use that 3m injection stuff on mounts to stiffen them up? anyone ever heard of this, tried it, etc?



I used it on my 5th gen GTS.. front and rear.. it worked really well.. they are still in good condition and it didn't add much vibration at all. The only way to do it and have it work well is to clean the mounts out real well.. the rubber n what not.. then layer the 3m window weld in .. shallow layers let them cure.. just keep stacking it.. Expect your car to be down for 2 days .. best to get spare mounts. But once it's done you'll never need to worry about mounts again.


I would not use window weld. Do a search on Celicatech. Chris D started a nice thread about the different options for materials for home made mounts. I used the liquid stuff mentioned in the thread - I forget the name of it right now and my mounts turned out great. I did not take the original rubber out but simply added the urethane to the existing mount. My theory for this was that I wanted a mount that had a shore hardness of about A75 to A80 and the material I purchased only came in A90. So, by leaving the stock rubber in there, I was able to effectively reduce the hardness of the entire mount. In my opinion, Kirk's inserts would save some time and hassel and you would probably never have to worry about them wearing. Most "home options" will wear at some point. However, it sounds like they are probably a little hard for most daily drivers.


I would assumed you would have used speedsource's ONE PIECE poly mounts? They're A LOT different than the kirk 2 piece inserts ..


The speed-source mounts were not available when I did mine. I would assume that the sw20 and st185 mounts they have would not work anyway. Even if they did, they would be too stiff for me.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
snapshotgt
#27
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QUOTE(jgreening @ Feb 13, 2007 - 8:38 PM) [snapback]526653[/snapback]
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The speed-source mounts were not available when I did mine. I would assume that the sw20 and st185 mounts they have would not work anyway. Even if they did, they would be too stiff for me.


Ahh.. i see.

Yup, you can get a "custom" set of st185's from them to work with st205 mounts (my setup) .. Don't remember exactly, but you have to get ALL rears or fronts of poly kit from st185 kit. Gets complicated, but you can work out a plug and play setup with their one piece mounts. smile.gif
Past: V6 Swapped 6G Celica, E46 BMW M3, Jeep Wrangler TJCurrent: 850rwhp C6 Corvette Grandsport, Gen1 6.2L Ford Raptor
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