Hey all,
I am currently building up my 7afe, i have bought a separate head and have already had new valve guides installed, its been cleaned and i have brand new toyota valves, exhaust and intake, i have had the intake ones machined to have more of the performance "penny on a stick" figure, i will post pics soon but for now here is an example Valves.

I am also going to have the Extrude Hone process ( Extrude Hone ) done to the entire head. The current 7afe in my car has a custom 4-1 headers (Headers), full exhaust, intake, clutch, lightweight flywheel, Apexi S-AFC II, bumped timing to about 14 degrees static timing. If i can find a used GT throttle body i will try to make it work, they seem to be fairly similar. Its been tuned and it has over 225k miles on the original engine. The gear box has been rebuild to brand new, and at last dyno the car was putting just about exactly 100 WHP on a 95 F day.

So i figure its already a healthy working little motor. To make this short, i was wondering who has had the highest NA horsepower out of a 7-afe . I am hoping to be able to build my motor to about 120-130 WHP, that would be ideal but im not sure exactly if i will achieve that goal. The bottom end is going to get first O.S. pistons, the head will be decked for a slightly higher compression ratio, and the entire engine will be blue printed. Then the entire crank assembly will be dynamically balanced with the flywheel and all the accessories on either end of it. Then it will all be put back together and have another tuning session on the dyno.

Now i know that it seems like a lot of money to do everything i am, which it is for only 130 WHP, but im looking to make this a great motor for auto-x. And if i have 200 WHP then ill just create a smoke show, so thats why im not just swapping in something else.

**CLIFF NOTES**

Who has the highest NA power 7afe with dyno numbers to prove it?

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: May 9, 2008 - 5:27 PM

200whp isnt going to happen, 130-140 crank would be a little optimistic i think without some tinkering with the cams. with what you have listed i'd expect around 110-120whp with a good tune. make sure you do all your runs on the same dyno tho, as theres alot of variation between those things.

Just swap in a 20V 4AG and you'll already have more power stock than any high-tuned 7AFE...

^ +1

6gc.net, killing 1 dream at a time.

haha ur totally stealing my line. didnt u see i copyrighted that?!

>

yea thats about right...lol
i understand that my goals are a little far fetched. I never said ANYTHING about 200WHP out of the motor, if you read carefully i specifically said i didnt want 200 WHP. I am still wondering if anyone has dyno numbers of they 7afe with anything over 100 whp?

here is my dyno results i got last year on my 7afe

the mods were a blitz sonic induction kit with stock intake piping and exhaust with decat. At the time i got my safc II mapped the tuner at the dyno mapped it to a/f 14.6 the end result was 133.8bhp @ the flywheel and 99bhp at the wheels


i have since mapped the safc II myself to a/f 12.8 on the road since i havent been able to afford any dyno time and im sure i have more power now

130 WHP = 4A-GE Silvertop stock

It would be cheaper to swap than to build the 7A... Sad, but true. If you want a good AutoX car then the 4AGE would be great. You would be staying in high RPM's anyways, you might as well add the power of VVT to the mix.

doesnt engine swapping change the type of class your in for autox? i could be wrong, but seems like "cheating" in my mind, build the 7a, id respect your efforts to the max!

if you are going to try to go all motor, you might was well go for individual throttle bodies.

I think edos holds the record for the most N/A 7afe hp. I THINK he made 130. i can't find the post at the moment.

>
probably this guy...
http://www.6gc.net/members/edo17982

Where are you getting an extrude hone job done and how much is that costing you. If it is done right you could outflow a 4AGE. I also think that you should look into getting your head flow tested. After you do that you can figure out your perfect lift from a cam and get your cams reground by any cam manufacturer.

>

i dont know if i will be able to get the head flow tested, my dad used to have a flow bench but he traded it for having his 76 BMW 90RS restored, but if i can find a place that can do that for me i will. I have also worked out that with the size valves in the 7-afe head, the lift on the cam is optimal, i would not gain much over the entire power band by having the cam reground, i know i could gain up top if i sacrificed low end torque, but the thing is like some said, i want to build a good auto-x motor, and i run mostly in the midrange during auto-x so that wouldnt be as advantageous for me. And yes if i swapped another motor in i would be out of my class. Thanks for edo's profile his motor is a piece of art! and thanks for the member that posted his dyno chart. Does anyone have any other ideas on what i could do to push more power out of this thing, i mean except for the obvious previously stated. Thanks for all your comments and support, i will try to take as many pics of my progress as possible and hopefully help you learn with my mistakes *praying for very few*. Any feedback and ideas are always welcome.

>

thanks for the prospective respect

get a standalone ECM so you can have full control over the engine.

>
if you significantly mod the motor... you change classes also. I'd prefer a swap...

Well,

i do not mean to bring this thread back from the dead, but i have gotten a lot of progress done on my 7AFE build. The motor was pulled last week and torn apart to the last nut and bolt. I have few pics but its hard to take pics with dirty hands. I have had the cylinder head ready for several weeks now, all i needed was to pull the motor and do the bottom end.

so as far as the motor goes here is a lis of what will have been done to it:

Top End:

-Head was decked
-New Valve Guides
-New Valves on both intake and exhaust
-Intake Valves have been machined for increased flow
-3-angle valve job
-Cylinder head had Extrude Hone process performed on it
-Combustion chambers were balanced and polished and are within .05 mL of each other
-Cams were shimmed for proper clearances
-Intake Manifold was dipped and cleaned and had a "casting wart" removed from cylinder #4 runner
-Custom Fender Well CAI system w/ K&N

Bottom End:

-Bored .2 over to fit first over-size pistons for slightly higher CR
-New Pistons, rings and appropriate hardware
-New main bearing and rod bearings
-Rod have been shot peened
-Entire rotating assembly has been dynamically balanced (Crank pulley, timing gear, crankshaft, flywheel, pressure plate)
-Block has been decked
-Lightweight flywheel (9lbs) has been resurfaced
-New oil pump
-New water pump
-New Clutch
-Entire Short block assembled by machine shop

Exhaust:

-Custom 4-1 Headers
-Custom 2" SS exhaust
-Removed Cat
-Ebay fart canon on the end of it

I think that this is the majority of the things that have been done to this motor, i may have left out some things but i hope you all understand that appropriate seals and gaskets have also been replaced.

My goal is to get this thing back into my car and running before the end of Feb. i hope to then be able to put miles on it and have it tuned again for optimum performance. I am hoping and praying that we can hit about 120-130 WHP with this setup.

Now for those who are sceptical on why i would have spent so much money on building a NA 7AFE, well i wanted to do something that not too many other have done, and its my auto-x car and i wanted to be able to stay in the same class as i have been competing and winning in, so a motor swap would have put me into a different class completely.

I hope you guys appreciate the amount of work and the few pioneering things that have gone into this build. Questions are welcomed and so are comments. I will try to take more pics of the reassembly stage, i will hopefully be getting bottom end back in a day or two.

PS. Motor put down 100 WHP with 230K miles on it before rebuild, which is higher than most NA 7AFE motors out there, i think...

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Feb 11, 2008 - 10:00 PM

Good luck. At least your actually doing this and not just dreaming about it like most people. Hope you meet your goal.

why stay with nearly stock CR? could have bumped it upto a touch over 10:1 without any problems burning pump gas. also are you planning to get cams?

well, i had to stay only with the first oversize pistons because the class i run in auto-x allows for only the first over size. Thats the main reason that the CR is stayin close to that, and for cams, i do not yet know but i think that im going to try to get a set of cams reground and possibly play with that for more power, but for the moment i am staying with stock cams.

>


I lol at your avat. ANON?

sounds good man...good luck...you should be able to squeeze 125 hp out of that i would hope

Whatd it cost you? and when are ya going to get it dyno'd?

you should look into a set of webcam regrinds, Hurley had some put in her 7a with great results.

I'll donate an extra set of stock cams for a regrind just to see what it does

I’m following your progress with interest. I am researching the 7AFE in NA form because I am planning on building one too. I have not found much about how these engines respond to bigger cams. I just finished measuring the specs on a set of stock cams from a 1994 Corolla 7AFE and was shocked to see how short the duration is.

Intake 147 degrees @ .050
Exhaust 151 degrees @ .050
Overlap at TDC is less that .020

I have built up lots of different engines over the years and have never seen a cam with such short duration. For this engine to make the power it does with this small of a cam says a lot for the tuning Toyota did. It also says a lot for the combustion chamber and ports. The combustion chamber benefits from being so small and shallow. The fast burn produces lots of torque. You can get high compression with dished pistons and still run on pump gas. If you are doing a rebuild, the Toyota 4AGZE piston can be used to get a good bump in compression. The port design is excellent, and looks very much like the port that was used on the Formula 1 engines. Small, but very straight allowing for high port velocity = wide power band.

I have recently spoken to several cam grinders. I have not found anyone that can get new cores for the cams. This is probably why not many people have been camming the 7A. I found a few cam grinders that will regrind your stock cams for $200 to 250 a pair. These are not welded, so you need to use lash caps under the cam buckets. You can also get welded regrinds for $300 – 600 a pair. You have to be careful with welded regrinds as the process is much harder (easier to screw up). A poorly done weld and cool down process leaves you with a cam that is bent or tends to bend after running.

It is likely that you do not need a big change in duration to feel a difference. The down side of changing the cam is that tuning the engine will likely get way harder. When you change the cam timing, you will need to start the tuning process all over to get the spark timing and a/f correct.

Good luck with your build up and hope you get 130+

^^^^^

wow thank you so much for that information, i have been dying to find out what the stock specs on the cams are but have not had the chance to measure them. This will help me out a lot in possibly obtaining a reground cam and getting better power out of this motor.

Thanks all for the positive comments, i just got a call today that the bottom end was done so i will pick it up tom. and start the reassembly process, i will try to take lots of pics in order to show my progress. Ill let you all know how it is going as soon as im done, hopefully the engine will be back up and running within the next two weeks. Wish me luck

Matt

Good Luck! I know all of us 7a peeps are rootin for ya!

>
you can get a higher CR with 4age pistons that have been modified slightly, without going over on the bore beyond your class specs. remember than the 4afe, 7afe, and 4age share the same bore diameter.

Well i got the bottom end back today, i think the pics are pretty self explanatory. If you have any questions just ask!


Balanced Flywheel and Pressure Plate


Cleaned Intake Manifold


Hole created to remove "casting wart" (I have to weld it on the weekend, ill post a pic of it shut


Close up of said hole


SHINY!!!!


New Water Pump


More shiny/clean pieces


Its truly a lot smaller than you would think


Bottom End Already Assembled


Shot-peened Rods (dunno bout spelling)


New pistons, bored cylinders, decked block


New valves, machined intake valves, balanced/polished combustion chambers


Close Up shot of the exhaust port, that is how smooth the extrude hone process makes it, better than just PORTING!!


Shimming valves


Notice matching marks on cam gears. Its a factory mods


Both cams in and bolted down, all valves shimmed to proper clearances.

I also just realized that i am going to need to remove the cams again to be able to bolt the head on woops

More pics to come soon of final re-assembly. Wish me luck

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Feb 13, 2008 - 11:31 PM