I'm sure a good number of u guys have done your own swaps, but curiosity keeps me thinking... did u guys have any previous knowledge or experience in doing the swap? im assuming you guys already knew about how a car runs an what not, just generally what did you know about teh swap, specially 3sgte swap...

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Well many people start off like you, with amateur car experience. Many people have grown with this site, and in that have grown to know ALOT about swaps, and engine maintenance. For example Presure2 is a moderator around here, DUDE KNOWS ALOT.. he was, one day.. human.. but now hes half celica guru/ half man... haha kidding, but really i actually read that he once started as a man who only knew how to change tires. Now he has impeccable information about our cars, and much more...Myth? NO, REALITY!! Im sure everyone will be willing to lend you a helping hand, as long as you will search for the easy stuff, someone will be here to help with the gray area...

This post has been edited by CelicaGT04: Jan 22, 2008 - 1:59 AM

thanks!! cuz right now im still in teh saving process....i was just doubtful on whether or not i could do a swap, cuz i was planning on a shop to do it, but i kinda wanna get to know my car better want the experience. I was thinking at first that i would need to be REALLY REALLY knowledgable about swaps an what not, the good thing is, i had a good amount of time messin with my CRX swapped engine with a couple friends and what not, but thanks for the help! ill be sure to ask a bunch once i start

Manny has done swaps but not to his own car. He's a 5sfte guy. And YES Manny is a 6th gen celica GOD.

I just think you should do A LOT of reading. check out the stickies and read it over and over again. You'll learn something every time you read it.

I had never done anything this extensive. I did a years worth of research before the undertaking.

Manny, I feel a cult following coming on. Take advantage of this
I'm going to sacrifice some mobile-1 motor oil in your name. I hope its fumes rise up to the 6gc heavens and please you.

I think most people, myself included that did the swap or did the 5sfte have a good background to begin with, not crazy but can change there own oil and know which way to turn a wrench. if you can do that then go for it. you will learn alot if you want to.

I'm in the same boat, trying to save up for the beams maybe by this summer. At first I just wanted it done but now i'd like to try and do it w/ some help from my mechanic. Or maybe it's the other way around?

I've swapped many efi Ford and Chevy engines in toyota trucks and 4runners so swapping a toyota engine in a toyota will be a cakewalk for me .

well, if you want to do the 3s swap you better have some fabrication skills under your belt... its not a bolt on engine for the st...

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Out of curiosity, what year CRX and what sort of swap. I'm curious cause actually the first swap I did, and one of the first big undertakings for me was a B16 into my 90 CRX Si. But from then on, it just hasn't stopped. As someone mentioned, a lot of us start out like you. Knowing how to change the basics, but the thought of an engine swap on our own is scary stuff. My encouragement to you would be as long as your methodical, have some fundamental knowledge of mechanics, and have a lot of time, go for it and have fun. I must say, it does help a lot if you've got someone you know who's handy and willing to help. Makes it a lot more fun, too. Watch out though, once you get started motor swapping, you may never stop.

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I had a 90 CRX DX, previous owner was my family friends( dads college buddy's son) so it was a good deal got teh car i for a cheap price 500 cuz my friend went to the army and he needed fast cash, but anyway, before he sold it to me and was officially mine he had a B20(was beastly) he swapped it in with his cuz i think, and it flew, like mad haha. but then i guess after all the beating on teh car tranny drops engine blows, so he bought a small SOHC ZC for about 300-400 i think, i help around with the swap, then a few months later BAM i was the new owner. the it was fun to drive i really wanted to keep it but its body was such in a bad shape from winter wear, i wanted to keep it cuz yea it was my first car and i always had teh crazy dream of dropping that lovely k20 into it. haha but anyway my dad comes to me one day after going to our family mechanic and is like come with me, so hes holding a check for 3200 and we go and i see a beautifully black celica coupe, (auto sadly wish it was manual), but anywho its a celica gotta love it. so i ended up selling teh CR for 900 from a guy who goes to my college and he has other two non driveable crx's that hes gonna part out and fix up teh one i sold him.

haha sorry for the whole story but yea there ya go... but sad news... night of the 25 a thurs i got into a freakin aaccident sooo my drivers side door is popped in...more info on that on a seperate thread tomorrow hopefully, and i must admit......im reallly really sad to see my baby celica get hurt that way hahah...

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LMAO!!
i am no god.
im just a guy, with a car, like all of you.
albiet a bit older than alot of you, which believe it or not, helps.
alot of the "mistakes" i see on this site is just a reflection of lack of experience, and research.
when we bought the celica back in '98 i was basicly a oil change/fix a flat tire/maybe brakes kind of guy, with just VERY basic knowledge about cars in general.
hell, first time i did axles, and seals, (the first "major" HAHA work i did to my own car) it took me litterally 12 hours.
i can prolly do BOTH sides in less than an hr now.
BTW, ive never done a whole 3sgte swap start to finish.
i've helped a few guys with theyre swaps, and done a few 5s ones and a couple 7a's...ect...lol
ill tell you guys, especially those of you who dont have much experience working on cars. the BEST way to learn, is to find a member who works on theyre own car, and join up with them and observe help as you go.
hell, i drove 5 hrs to meet up with art (lagos) back in the day, to help him with his swap, when BOTH of us really didnt know what the hell we were doing.
when WE took the "vicotry" pic, of art in the clips empty engine bay, it wasnt to look cool on the board, it was cause we actually felt like we acoomplished this huge feat. lol
and looking back, it was, in a way, we both learned a ton, and that first major step helped ease that "fear" that we all have when we start messing with our cars.
now, with the way the forum has grown, and the available information we've aquired over the years, it helps all of us that our trying to learn more about our cars, and how they work.
anyone who really wants to learn how to work on theyre cars can gather enough info between here, and a few of the other common sites that are related to our cars, and the swaps we typicly do, (celicatech, mr2oc ect.) to get a great head start on learning how some of the systems in the car work, then its up to you to acutally get out there and apply it.
with alot of research, some basic common sense, a pretty basic set of tools, and some time, learning how to, and compleating a swap, or ANY work on your celica really isnt that hard.
/rant..lol

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actually, if you buy the RIGHT parts, the first time, its a matter of drilling 2 holes, both of which are factory marked.
not a huge undertaking by any means.

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Really? by how you are putting it, would be just as easy doing a 3s swap on a st as a 4a swap

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it is, just a matter of gathering the RIGHT parts, the RIGHT info, and executing everything properly.

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Amen to that! That was such a great day. Youll forever be my swap brother, Manny.



Now here is what I think about this topic. I have always tried to preach to people to do their own swaps or turbo kits. You just cant own a custom car like that and not know anything about it. You are going to have to pop the hood from time to time and fix misc things, and if you paid someone to do your swap your just going to be frustrated by all the things they did wrong to it.

However, I have recently come to the conclusion that a 3s swap, or a 5sfTe/7afTe is not for everyone. Way too many people over the years have started these projects only to sell their car within the first year of owning it. The problem is that they did not take the time to do things right from the start, or they did not take the time to really learn about cars. If anyone wants a swap, here is what i would recommend....

1. Make sure you really love your car and plan to keep it for more then 2yrs. A lot of guys on here thought a turbo celica was their dream car, only to turn around and sell their car within the first year or so.
2. Make sure you have at LEAST $4,000 cash on hand before you start. If you dont, then your going to have a huge wake up call when you find out how much everything adds up to.
3. Make sure you do at LEAST 1 full year of research. A lot of people people get into this too early and dont have a clear understanding of what needs to be done.
4. Do your own swap, and take the time to learn about it.
5. Take the time to do things RIGHT the first time. Change out all the seals, do your waterpump and timing belt, etc... if you skip any of these things now, they will just be back to haunt you.


If you can meet all 5 of those requirements, then doing a 3s swap or a turbo kit is one of the most amazing things that you can do to your celica.

man, just thinking about doing a swap after reading this makes its seem so exciting, which i cant wait to do mine, but i know for sure im gonna have mine for more than 2 yrs maybe even longer, i just gotta get my car fixed first......grrrrr

anyway, yea planning on doing the swap ive read alot about it already, but its still in teh very distant futurre haha. i've always wanted to do things on my own specially when i had my CRX. i have a coupleof friends, one owns a RSx type S, two of them have an 07 WRX and one has a 2.5i, and one who swapped a 4th gen 3sgte into his mr2 (lucky bastard) and my friend with teh RSX is the only one willing to actually help me do a swap haha maybe i can convince my other friends. cuz my friends with teh subies, theyre always like "i dont know man, i would rather have a shop do my swap or car work" and its true though, any shop is bound to do something in teh swap that you didnt know or did not what which can cause something to go wrong. they just seemed very skeptical about teh idea of doin ure own auto work involving the actual swap. yea they do body and what not, but if u got a car, and u love it, ya need to know it inside and out only way to love it more, thats how i see it.

oh yea and note on ym friend who got his mr2 swapped, for him which i thought was kinda a waste of money, and im not a mathmetician or anything, but he spent maybe around almost 10,000 on his swap which i thought was a little too much, maybe because it was a 4th gen the engine may have been expensive. He loves cars but he doesnt really know much about them either like when i asked him about his engine and his tranny he didnt really know what to say, he brought his car to a shop about 30-40 minutes away, and he didnt end up having his car for a whole 1 and a half months because they kept running into wiring errors and ignition errors, and the owner of the shop who was personally doing it had his son in teh hospital, so everything didnt reallly workout for him. i went with my friend to check out how teh swap was going, and you can tell that they have never done a toyota swap, they re garage was filled with eclipses and hondas, and they just looked lost, and they had one guy hunting down answers on forums on the computer near by. IMHO that made me not want to bring my car to a shop, because i wouldnt want to waste my time waiting if they dont even have expereince, id rather take long for me to do it than a shop, cuz i first hand see whats happening. his car is still a stock 3s with no heavy mods just a new stiff clutch but he oesnt "know" his car. which i think he should..

doing your own swap is worth it... just as lagos said, you have to plan and not just jump into it

Funny how I get to work and this topic is bumped to the top. I was driving to work and I took a turn a bit hard and my battery came off the tray and fell on my distributor, breaking the lead off. The wire is fine, but I was running on 3 cylinders for a while, and it sounded awful. </story>
Well for the time that it was riding rough I started thinking:
I want to do a 4A blacktop swap. I'm thinking about pulling a loan out and not only buying the engine/tranny but also a beater car for daily driving (gotta get to work), maybe an aw11 or a 5th gen, I dunno. I found a site online that will sell a blacktop with tranny, ecu, harness, etc. for 900 plus shipping. Question is, is this a decent price for a blacktop and if i pull a 4K loan and get the beater for 1k, will 3K cover the cost of the engine and all the things necessary for the swap? It's not turbo so I assume it's going to be a little less work/money to get everything right. Any opinions?

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Don't take out a loan... this money will be lost no matter how you look at it... save money and do it... for 3k you can do a 4a swap correctly.... also I'd recommend getting a frontendclip...

btw, why blacktop?

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If I did my research right the blacktop was the most aggressively tuned 4A that they actually sold here and I see that most people do silvertop swaps instead of blacktop. I wasn't really sure why nobody does the blacktop but I wanted to do it. Not for any "i wanna be so unique" reasons but for power difference really. Is there something about the blacktop that makes it more difficult to swap in vs. the silvertop? The price difference is only like 200 bucks.

yes, one is heftier... blacktop is like a heavy duty version... but unless you are hammering the gas to the floor, you wont need it... Silvertop is the newer version and you have a better chance of getting one and rebuilding it (if you decide to) also, it has a different compression rating if I remember, Silvertop also has DOHC and its 20v... blacktop isnt... (I could be wrong)

The blacktop if I'm not mistaken is actually the newer version made from 95-98 with a higher compression (11:1) vs the silvertop's 10.5:1. They both have DOHC 20V and they both have VVT. But the blacktop also has a map sensor and the diameter of the individual throttle bodies is increased.

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hahaaaa this is the best thread everrrr because of the above
oh Manny, I'm honored that I was your first 7A swap experience.

but I agree with Art, I'm a big believer in people doing all their own research and work. I learned by watching and getting involved where I could, eventually that gives you enough confidence to not be afraid to undertake almost anything even Manny can throw at you (haha). you also get that good feeling of accomplishment that adds to the feeling of pride in your car.

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Unfortunately you are wrong... =(

Blacktop 20V is newer, lighter, more revvy and more powerful than the silvertop 20V. Both are DOHC, blacktop has more compression, more cam and a better designed, better flowing head. The only thing the silvertop has that may be a benefit over the blacktop, is the bigger rods.

Anyways... everyone starts somewhere... although I don't really count in the question. I kinda grew up around mechanics so... yeah. Doing a swap and fixing cars is a skill ANYONE can learn. It's a matter of time investment and practical application.

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so why choose silvertop over blackotp, bigger rods doesn't seem to have any effect on the power or how the engine feels...

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x2 As manny and art said its a great acomplishment when you do it yourself. DONT get a loan. saving and waiting makes it all worthwhile, i FINALLY understand what art was talking about when he insists i be patient and take my time. im over halfway to swap #2 and if i had a nearby celica guru to help i would attempt doing it myself, knowing that alot of the guys here (ESPECIALLY finding out manny didnt know much back in the day) has emboldend me

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Panda - also take into consideration which 4A's have parts easily available in the US. IMO Get an older 4A-GZE - it's FI but it's got parts available in the US and because it's FI it will be built better. I got my friend a 4A-GZE clip from a Levin that was in beautiful shape for only $1500. Not sure if I can find one that cheap again but I would try.
Also - you have a bunch of people here in Houston that would def help out, who have done engine swaps before [all s series motors but the same rules apply] and you have Tweak to make the wiring harness right the first time. My friends and I would be more than willing to help you all throughout the swap process.
Your only problem - you live clear on the other side of town from all the rest of us. Might have to find a garage over here to do the work in if you want constant help.

Well we may have access to a garage very soon and I would greatly appreciate any help you guys would throw me. As far as the gze goes I've thought for a while now about what kind of options I have and in the end It would be nice to have a 4agze, but honestly (and this may sound strange), i'm putting the blacktop in my celica to be my daily driver. I want another ST or an AW11 and build a 4agte out of a newer gen 4agze (the one with the beefier block) and make a sweet project car.

But honestly this is just to replace my daily driving motor if my 7a blows. It is an upgrade, but not a racecar. That's why I'm going black....

*slap*