honestly there is a very easy solution to this discussion.


track day:

Swaped ST204 (modded [similarly] or stock [ST205]) vs. ST205 (modded [similarly] or stock)

5 runs per car

Launch: 2500
3000
3500
xxxx <---Swapped ST204 driver determined
xxxx <---ST205 driver determined

best runs win.

Edit I: yes, there is track conditions, and location (obviously very few ST205's in the USA, but there are plenty overseas.), driver etc..but this would give a basic layout.
Edit II: Btw, really good discussion topic, as long as it stays clean. And facts are brought into play, not "hear say".
Edit III: Silver94CelicaOwner just swaped his gt....ST205 swap with E153 non-LSD, hed be a pretty good canidate for the ST204 swapped celica, and i believe its relativly unmodified.

This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 30, 2008 - 1:43 PM

AWD = Rev to 6k - pop the clutch - WIN.

^ not with only 255 hp. more jump forward then bog back down to 3.5k and slowly climb.
6k is pointless with no boost.
it happens to my buddys wrx alllll the time.

>

The point is.... a swapped celica is a faster car then an st205...BUT, awd cars pretty much rule the 1/4.
I guess Ive been hanging around with too many subaru/mitsu guys.

^ agreed.
lagos did i ever tell you that your awesome?

>

You pm everyday to let me know, doh!

I totally agree with Lagos. My swapped 6gc is lighter, quicker, and far more fun to drive then my modded ST185, but launching it hard just results in wheel hop and slow 60ft times - and as the boost goes up it just gets worse. Whereas the chubby ST185 just squats and goes.

>
so wheres all this extra weight coming from in a GT4? rear axle, drive shaft and diff etc

GT4 Best Motoring (Repost video I guess)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8-fBC6XHk
has dragging at the end

This post has been edited by Rusty: May 30, 2008 - 6:09 PM

>


You have no idea how heavy that rear end is.
I remember dragging mine around the shop when I was doing my swap. It was quite difficult to move.

BTW, in that vid the gt-4 hit a 13.9. And thats BONE STOCK. Stock cats, exhaust, boost, everything.
Throw a downpipe/exhaust and an mbc on it and it wont have any problems hitting at least mid 13s.

This post has been edited by lagos: May 30, 2008 - 6:15 PM

Damn seems like everyone has their own opinion...

Now because of yall i dont know what to do anymore...

Swap a 3sgte around august in my 94 GT...

or wait 'till my birthday in january and buy a ST205...

>

Does that REALLY require thinking about...have a swapped Celica or a real GT4....hmmm let me think about that one for a second

>

Being patient is something i've never been able to...
And i wanna race this summer

>



you are correct

but awd 3sgte will win even in roll start because it will have more torque than the front wheel drive one.

>

yup hats off to the ST20# Celica's

hope to see some vs some subby's and evo's

This post has been edited by Rusty: May 31, 2008 - 4:22 AM

slightly off topic, but how about a 205 V NSX.

205 wins by 1 tenth of a sec.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqzYG62_kMc

Anyway, back on topic!! Woe Woe Woe are you guys trying to tell me that the swapped celi would beat the st205 wrc?? I think that is more a case of heart ruling the head my american friends!! The Four Wheel Drive counts for a hell of a quicker start, and i belive that this advantage would win the race. Maybe this is what you would be hoping for! Celica GT4 WRC

>

A type R is faster than a GT4???

WTF

The driver must have missed a gear or back down...

Never under estimate a tricked out little Civic.

>

I would think the subframe itself adds a lot of the weight. The "tunnel"(not sure of the actual proper name) portion is
designed much more rigid than the flat sheetmetal that is on the 204.

I think jeffs 185 is more whp than a 205 the jdm 205 is 251 hp, but that is at the crankshaft.
If I remember corrrectly jeff is over 240 at the wheels.

whoever thinks 205's weigh 1500 kg is smoking crack.
there is people in the uk that have theirs down around the 1100 mark.
full street trim expect a 205 will tip the scales at 1400 absolute max (fuel etc)
in a high power fwd you wont be able to get to WOT till 3rd, which is going to be half track. By this time the awd has got the 205 near half a dozen car legnths, Even with a 150kg less and slightly more power to the ground (assuming all mods equal) you wont make the diff up.

make it a traffic light drag and its worse because there is even less traction for the taildraggers.

like i said before ive beaten a 300kw rx7 on semis, and thats going to get more traction then a fwd.

I think the 205 would win. Jeff's ST185 is a Carlos sainz edition iirc and makes more power than your average 185. probably very close to the power of an ST205 engine. Since I recently bought an ST165, I've been hanging over at alltrac.net and I came across a thread about 1/4 mile times. apparently, a stock 185 runs about a 15.5, but with a 3" downpipe (supposedly adds about 25 hp by itself!) 3" exhaust, an intake, and a MBC, it runs mid to high 13's... and since most people who swap in a 3sgte into their FWD will probably add at least an exhaust, you must equip the ST205 with an exhaust too. now figure that the ST205 makes more power than the ST185, so with the exhaust it probably runs about the same time of mid to high 13's, while the FWD swaps are running high 13's and low 14's... I think the ST205 would win.

stock 205 and 204 with stock 205 engine and that mr2 lsd perfect conditions means the fwd will launch pretty well and should easily pass the 205 by 1000foot mark.....

swaped cars "or gt-twos" arn't that bad to launch in perfect conditions i have even held up good to modded evo 6's back in the day of my st162 swap on crap australian traffic light roads...... and yeah most stock awd cars high revs drop cluthc equals fry of the clutch or a bog down......

also moded both 205 is still not the clear winner....if u gonna go mod the 205 for suspension and launching and all that lots more power you get the same if not more at the wheels power from the 204 cause of the drive train loses (lack off compared to the 205) and the 204 would have some radial drag slicks and even maybe blot a wheel bar and or have some adjustable rear shocks or get springs and make the rear stiff as all buggery and yeah lots of variables but the fwd can get a lot of traction with mods just like modding a 205 and the 204 has the two of the three main factors for 1/4 wins....weight and power the gt-four onyl has traction and as long the 204 gets some of it it will win.

but then there is another stage when the gt-four will own and that is in examples like Tuffys 600hp+ 205 for a 204 with 600hp to get the traction needed to beat that even with the weight advantage would take drag slicks and drag suspension set up and a half.....

but back to stock for stock with drivers that have owned for a while and know how to get the best from there car...i'll still put my money on the 204 swap.

>
x2, even though i believe the swapped (lighter weight) would own, it's nothing compared to a REAL gt-four, w/ modd's like crazy

In your origonal post, you asked how it would be stock. Now you start spending some money and adding some strength; the 205 becomes an extremely powerful machine.
>
Is all i got to say to tricked lil' civics
>
That; my friend, is because they've been modded. The OP askes for stock/similar mods.

EDIT: Well at least as stock as a 204 with the 3sgte swap can be

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jun 2, 2008 - 9:24 AM

you can't say because each one is different....
and you can't really say "stock to stock" because 1 is never "stock"

erroneous arguement

The video you posted is not a Celica at all. That car has a supra engine and transmission, tubbed out rear, tube race chassis. wrapped in fiberglass that resembles a Celica. Not a 204 at all.

The original poster asked which would perform better on a quarter mile track. A ST204 swapped with a 205 engine with an E153 transmission, or a real ST205 with similar modifications.

We all know the gt-four would get away 1st, but i dont think 400 metres is enough to catch up. Oh and what's with everyone calling it AWD? its 4WD. They are different. AWD powers 2 axels, 4WD powers 4 axels

I gotta say, even tho I own a swap, the GT4 will own the swapped Celica [mod for mod]. You have to give the ST-205 at least a downpipe upgrade and intake upgrade for this comparison to apply - reason being I've not seen one swapped Celica with stock exhaust/intake [granted I've not seen them all either]. Add those two minor [on N/A cars] mods and the 205 will make significantly more power than stock trim.
Another common misconception is that the track has better traction than the street. Depends on the track, depends on the street. Maybe it's just the conditions here in Houston but I can say that the track is not favorable to FWD vehicles. It does however do wonders for RWD and AWD. I've seen swapped Celicas run MR2T's and the MR2 wins both street and track - but the gap is a whole lot wider at the track.
I think in theory the 204 should win but in real life I just can't see it happening. The real test would be to have someone who owns both run both so we could reasonably remove driver from the equation.
If we could find a stockish 205 here I'd be all down to run him but I wouldn't bet on myself winning.

I hope its not because you still shift the way you did when you bought the car from me
Just messin with ya Matt

BTW....that car should hit a good 13sec run with the new clutch disk grabbin a 14 psi setting

>

I think you`ll find it "IS" AWD.

taken from a 4WD site

All wheel drive (AWD) is almost the same thing as full time 4WD - it is a system that powers all four wheels of a vehicle at all times as well. Full time symmetric AWD would be the best term to be used. Difference to full time 4WD is that a "4-low" setting is not available in AWD cars. Due to the lack of "low range" AWD vehicles are much less capable in off-road settings than full time 4WD vehicles, but work perfectly well on-road.