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Murder doesn't = homicide. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is the killing of another person with intent. All murders are homicides but not all homicides are murders. So while this is a homicide, the drivers certainly didn't intend to kill.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Aug 29, 2008 - 1:01 AM

Am I missing something here?

The story said it was more of "road rage" than street racing that caused this to happen.

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Yeah you missed that sentence.

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No, that's the sentence that I am specifically responding to. It says that this may have been road rage and NOT of street racing.

I don't advertise either one, but it would seem to me that road rage is the greater of the two evils...

the ABC knew damn well it was not street racing, but there is, and has been such a fear and hate campaign against street racing they new it would lead to it being blown out of proportion. Its funny bcuz we all know street racing is bad but we have all done it. And there is such a huge stereotype with it. For every kid that does it there is some 50 something guys in his vette that does it too. So i hate when people try 2 act like their $hit dont stink and bad mouth people for talking about it. Get a life and no matter what, bad things will happen weather your a bad person or not. Thats life.

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glad you do it in the middle of no where. "Been around racing your whole life" <-- you are barely out of diapers. Yes you might be a "good" driver. You still have not a single idea about racing in a driving environment, I'm glad your uncle has been to a racing school, YOU have not, you don't have the seat time, you don't have the instructor time and you have A LOT to learn about actual driving in a racing environment.

Get yourself out to a track day...a weekend is like $130 and I'm talking ROAD COURSE not a drag strip (which is only $20 for a test and tune and depending on a sponsorship night maybe up to $50 max). You don't learn driving in a straight line. At a track day you will get seat time on a course, and you will get instruction from a PROFESSIONAL instructor...not your "has been to a racing school" uncle.

I've been racing for many many years both 2 and 4 wheels, anyone who races/does track days at a track will tell you......The street racing crowd no matter where you are IS looked down upon, its irresponsible, immature, and dangerous it doesn't matter how "nice" you are....how do I know? I've been there.


The article also didn't talk about if street racers were "nice" or "good people"...so try and stay on topic here.

They are charging with murder because of the action involved. It would be the same as playing Russian Roulette, actually it is the same just a different weapon of choice. You didn't pull the trigger but you took part in an event which by part of your action lead to someone's death. You would be charged for murder, since by the "what if" analysis, if you were not taking part in the event they would not have died.


This is one of my friends he is a good driver....he drives on the track.


This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 29, 2008 - 6:54 AM

Hmm I think the problem with going to track days for us youngsters is proximity and money. Every race track available to me is close to 3 hours away and most don't host many open track days (because of liability insurance reasons) and several places are being closed down because of the their lack of income and the cost of maintenance. I wouldn't be able to afford a track day either.

Although, I've never and probably will never race another car on the road, I do enjoy spirited driving which here is punished as street racing ( >50km/h over the posted speed limit.)

I know street racing is dumb, especially in the city, but every government's response to the "street racing epidemic" is half assed and not going to solve anything. Cars keep getting faster and faster, speed limits keep getting lower, insurance keeps getting higher and more tracks close down every year.

What the proper response should be is financial support for the tracks that are left and for some smaller road courses to be opened on the city limits because to actually succeed at taking automobile racing off the streets the racers need some place to go.

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" but every government's response to the "street racing epidemic" is half assed"
I'd check on that.....in VA we have a very tough group of guys nearly dedicated to this cause alone.
Also in CA i know that the police partner with local tracks to have nights that kids can come and race, and even race against the police. They also shut down some stadium parking lots occasionally and run races there.


Yes most tracks are 3+ hours away (They are that far from myself as well) but thats just part of the game, they need to be that far out because of the space/noise/accommodations they take up/need. Save your money slowly and even do it 1 time a year if thats all you can, the benefits from it are huge.

and yes there are smaller "road courses" inside city limits, this is called "AUTO-X" and its a cheap (much less than $100) day events and are lots of fun.


The bottom line is there are options, there are cheap options.....its do you chose to look for or create those options.

Dan, every hear of these guys? http://www.comscc.org/ I met one of the members, he likes my mr2 and I plan to join them at some race event & become a member. I like his cars more though, Ariel Atom & an Evo, I can't wait to get on a real track with these guys.

Hahaha well I figured Cali would have something going. They have so many tracks that are all world renowned. So I'll retract that. I was thinking more about New York and Ontario than anywhere else really. Although I bet there are a lot of other places that have this problem but aren't responding well to it.

I would love to race the cops, my cousin is one of them. I have not been able to find any auto-x around here but I did find a few rally clubs, the issue is that I would need a second car, I am not rallying my DD . That's about the only option around here, for anything else I'd need to travel at least 4 hours.

By far the cheapest option (though its questionably illegal) is hosting parking lot events, which I have tried to organize between my friends. Its pretty sketchy though, and it might constitute "street racing" in the eyes of the police. By the way, does anyone know the legality of setting up a cone course in a parking lot?

>You'd need to have the property owners permission. I'd get it in writing. Plus i'd have him standing there so that when the cops showed up it'd be cool.

Although it probably wouldn't help a whole lot... if the cops wanted to be mean about it... IDK...

This post has been edited by D-Man: Aug 29, 2008 - 9:37 AM

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NY?! what are you talking about...we go there from VA to race...
http://www.theglen.com/

do not start auto-x-ing in a parking lot.
you need to contact the owners and work with them on setting up an APPROVED function.
Contact the police department and see if they would like to help sponsor the event, or where they can point you to go for a permit for such an event. One of my acquaintances was able to do this exact thing here the other week.

ITCHY that looks like a good site
A lot of my friends race NASA events, random track days, BMWCCA events, Summit point's

here is a list of events/orgs that my friend is doing this year in the GT3
PCA Potomac - Summit Main, July 12-13 (Sat Sun)
http://www.pcapotomac.us/

Redline Time Attack - Summit Shanendoah, August 16-17 (Sat Sun)
http://www.redlinetimeattack.com/

PCA Potomac - VIR, September 5-7 (Fri - Sun)
http://www.pcapotomac.us/

GT Live - VIR, October 3-5 (Fri - Sun)
http://www.gtlivetour.com/

PCA Metro NY - NJMP, October 25-26 (Sat Sun)
http://metronypca.org/

PCA Potomac - Summit Main, November 1-2 (Sat Sun)
http://www.pcapotomac.us/

Audi Club - VIR, November 15-16 (Sat Sun)
http://www.audiclubna.org/chapters/potomac/

some groups are not car dependant (ferrari track days/audi/vw normally are open to other cars) PCA how ever is Pcar only

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 29, 2008 - 9:48 AM

All of those are US

However I am interested in one US race, the 24 hours of LeMons. I plan on entering a car in LeMons next year if it still exists. If not than it'll be in a derby.

This post has been edited by Taskbot: Aug 29, 2008 - 11:11 AM

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haha thats an AWESOME race, i'd love to do it but we don't have enough time to put together a car

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Yeah, that's my problem too. I wanted to enter this year for Detroit(ish) [Toledo, OH] but its too close to the date. Besides, my lack of on track racing coupled with most of my friends being unable to drive a manual transmission made it virtually impossible to put anything together for this year (that didn't involve me doing all the grunt work and paying all the money for it.. plus being one of only two drivers on a 24 hour race).

But next year I plan on getting together all of the people I possibly can. By that time I should be able to teach at least 2 other people how to drive a manual transmission sort of okay so I can sleep without worry before I take the wheel again

true true.

Follow-up:
http://www.fortmilltimes.com/124/story/272104.html

Four counts, vehicular manslaughter.

There's degrees of murder, by the way. First degree is pre-meditated, what you'd call cold-blooded. It's planned, deliberate, with time to consider the right and wrong of a situation. Second degree is lethal intent, but unplanned. The difference would be between buying a gun to kill someone, versus losing one's temper and hitting them with a bar stool. Either way, the standard is essentially that you know your actions will likely lead to someone's death and you do it anyway.

Manslaughter's a step below, as has been noted -- it's the lack of intent. It involves knowing your actions are dangerous and could lead to someone's death and doing it anyway, but without the intention of killing them. Beating someone to death is murder, while punching someone in the chest and having them drop dead because you managed to disrupt their heartbeat would probably be manslaughter.

If he was racing beside them and screaming threats, you'd have a difficult time proving intent to kill -- as opposed to forcing them off the road.

This post has been edited by Galcobar: Sep 1, 2008 - 2:36 AM

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I agree that is the common understanding of the term. However, I was just pointing out that in many (most?) jurisdictions, recklessness that results in death can constitute "murder" under the law.

i hate seeing this crap... it gives true car enthusiasts a bad rep. Notice how the two cars involved are bone stock. obviously it was just a bunch of kids acting stupid but from now on the cops will be getting more aggressive on cars that have visible modifications, rims, body kits etc. and they may not even be involved in this kind of crap sooo irritating

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Hahaha of course they'll be more aggressive on cars that have visible modifications, they sell for much higher at the police auctions. Protect, Serve and make some killer cash from repossessing cars.

Cheif wiggins of the simpsons once said, "I said we are Powerless to Protect you, not Punish you"

This post has been edited by D-Man: Sep 4, 2008 - 3:54 PM