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Lower Drinking Age? - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #64217 76 posts Started by cnelson
what you guys start driving on the road at 14? 16 here

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I won't get started on smoking/military service/driving... but I think 21 is a reasonable age for drinking. I've had my battles with alcoholism on and off since I was 15 or so. Only recently (in my mid-20s) I am able to better control it.

The stuff can be very addictive, especially to youngsters.
YEah its 20 to drink and gamble in here in Oki.

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QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Dec 16, 2008 - 9:08 AM) *
>legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

yeh and Krudd thinks its smart to deter teenagers from binge drinking by raising the price of pre-mix spirits hahah wat a joke, people i know now go out and buy straight spirits so once theyve mixed a few they just drink it straight, thats reeeaaalll smart.

all countries should use this "if you can drive by yourself, you should be mature enough to buy and drink alcohol"

that would mean i could buy it hahah tongue.gif but ill just have to wait till september 09
mrgrape...again with the comments

i dunno being 18 i think itd be nice to have a shiner every now and then (blue moon is yummy too biggrin.gif) and i definitely agree with the whole dying for your country mantra-i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced, i just dont get how thats fun. the idea of not being aware of my surroundings scares me. Now that being said please dont think the temptation isnt there, my father is a winol and makes, collects, stores, drinks, all types of wine and we have just about and hard liquor you could think of so i suppose if i wanted to i could drink

i like what europe does, drinking wine and beer at 16 and driving, fighting, everything else at 18
i dunno i guess ive been scared straight cuz im to afraid of the consequences, id be the guy who had like 3 beers max then drove all the wasted home (after circling the blocks a few times and asking for "gas" money) i know that if the drinking age was lowered id be able to be responsible with it

my grand total so far is 11 beers, 3 flutes of champagne, and a glass of wine... 3 of those beers the champagne and wine were at the gparents 50th wedding anniversary/reunion/everyone over the age of 21 was out of it and my not-so-together aunt was pouring me real champagne

im just a huge boozer rolleyes.gif
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QUOTE (razor7 @ Dec 16, 2008 - 1:12 AM) *
>Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC


exactly my point
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QUOTE (97celiman @ Dec 15, 2008 - 11:27 PM) *
>i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced
And people like you are the reason i see no problem with 18 being able to drink.

But i still feel that 16 is too young for UNRESTRICTED drinking & bar scenes. Sorry guys, but i remember all of the stupid shi~ that i did at that age laugh.gif And lord know's i'd be dead in a ditch if i wasn't watching my A~ extra carefully to avoid "seeming" intoxicated; as to avoid getting in any trouble.

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Hmm I think the drinking age should be lowered. Well at least here. In my experience the legal age just means that minors here have to engage in somewhat illegal activities to get alcohol. I was certainly paying people to grab me a twixer (26er) of vodka when I was 17. At 18 people I knew were making frequent trips to Quebec, where you can buy at 18. So it doesn't seem to protect minors from getting alcohol, which is kind of the purpose of making it a law. Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join. This is most certainly something to do with the city I live in, but its still pretty interesting. Lastly, no matter what age. The first two years of having alcohol availability from my experience are the years you will drink the heaviest. Up until a year ago, I was considered by definition and alcoholic in that I binge drank 12 or more times a year. I also used to be part of the LD50 club ( > 0.35 BAC). My friends and I would drink a twixer each and THEN go to a bar for 3 or 4 pitchers. Needless to say after experiences like that we've curbed our drinking habits. However most people aren't as extreme* as that and will drink a little more moderately and eventually drink less. Its also Canada so its generally more acceptable to binge drink and I'm almost certain we can handle alcohol better than most, by virtue of our culture.

* Btw by extreme, I think I am basing my definition of off one person I know, who ended up in emergency with 0.60 BAC. He wasn't there for Alcohol poisoning though, we was there because he got a concussion from falling off his porch. After he got back he slept for 3 days waking only to get food and water. It was kind of funny, I'm surprised he's still alive.

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QUOTE (Taskbot @ Dec 16, 2008 - 9:15 AM) *
>Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join.
Oooh; i have to X2 this statement. But i always liked drinking more than most other stuff; as a result, after I finaly turned 21; i believe i've done ALOT less of that other stuff (the herbal supliment and pharmasuiticals were gone almost instantly laugh.gif I've probably induldged only a few times a year for the last several years. And it was just because i smelled it and wanted in laugh.gif Even then i didn't sip but a little bit)

Everything else though is completely unrelated. rolleyes.gif

(why has my spell check stoped working? i know i didn't spell some of those words right... WTF? I swear i'm not high or drunk right now. My CPU is being screwy again. My apoligies for the crap spelling.)

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As far as the gun thing goes, yes you can by a rifle at 18, not a handgun, its kinda hard to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle in your hands with out gettting the cops called on you. Handguns are 21.

The drinking age is fine where it is, at 21. It does suck for those of us who are under 21, like me... However i think they should change some of the rules that are around it.

Parents who let their kids(and other kids) stay at their house, supervising shouldn't get in any trobule, that is silly. Kids will be kids, we will get booze and drugs, you just can't avoid it, and thinking you can is just naive. So why are we punishing the parents who are actively doing something to make sure that their kids are drinking in a controlled situation. Key word is parents(or legal guardians)

We give permits to drive, that require you to have a parent or someone older than 21(depending on states) so that the kid can learn to drive with someone who has been there before. Yet when it comes to drinking we punish the older people, I understand that it is breaking the law, and thats what they should change. Not the age. We all do stupid stuff but I think that if we change the laws that would allow for parents to supervise their kids they would be less likely to drink and drive, less likely to drink way to much, and less of chance for girls to get raped and guys to get in fights.

If the bars and clubs let you drink at 16 there would be way way way to much jail bait in those places! If you wanna make it 18 thats one thing, but not 16, that is just way to young.

Just my opinion

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QUOTE (Legit94GT @ Dec 16, 2008 - 12:23 PM) *
>As far as the gun thing goes, yes you can by a rifle at 18, not a handgun, its kinda hard to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle in your hands with out gettting the cops called on you. Handguns are 21.


To buy is 21, to possess is 18.

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QUOTE (Legit94GT @ Dec 16, 2008 - 11:23 AM) *
>The drinking age is fine where it is, at 21. It does suck for those of us who are under 21, like me... However i think they should change some of the rules that are around it.

Parents who let their kids(and other kids) stay at their house, supervising shouldn't get in any trobule, that is silly. Kids will be kids, we will get booze and drugs, you just can't avoid it, and thinking you can is just naive. So why are we punishing the parents who are actively doing something to make sure that their kids are drinking in a controlled situation. Key word is parents(or legal guardians)

We give permits to drive, that require you to have a parent or someone older than 21(depending on states) so that the kid can learn to drive with someone who has been there before. Yet when it comes to drinking we punish the older people, I understand that it is breaking the law, and thats what they should change. Not the age. We all do stupid stuff but I think that if we change the laws that would allow for parents to supervise their kids they would be less likely to drink and drive, less likely to drink way to much, and less of chance for girls to get raped and guys to get in fights.
As a parent myself; i have to admit that that'd be a great way of doing things. But here in texas (atleast when i was a kid) it is/was legal to give your kid alcohol on your own property. I hope that hasen't and dosen't change.

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In the UK you can drink at 16 and buy at 18....we have a huge drink related problem with violence....binge drinking (drinking huge amounts in a short period) and alcohol related illnesses......do you really want the same problems?

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I think 21 is the right age for someone to be legal to drink. Most people are not responsible enouph at the age of 16-18 imo to have the right to buy and drink alcohol and be safe about it. I know if I was able to buy alcohol at 16, it wouldn't have been good. lol. Even at 21, some people aren't ready for the responsibilty just yet (but I believe the majority are).

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You shouldn't be able to buy at 16, but here in the states we also have a problem when college kids go away to school and start drinking. Nobody waits until they're 21 when they are in college; alcohol is so easy to get.

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QUOTE (Nial @ Dec 16, 2008 - 10:36 AM) *
>In the UK you can drink at 16 and buy at 18....we have a huge drink related problem with violence....binge drinking (drinking huge amounts in a short period) and alcohol related illnesses......do you really want the same problems?


That's in the UK though, not all of Europe, that problem, right? I think it would be a similar phenomenon here... in regions that are similar to the UK like here where I am in the Pacific Northwest, I think there would be more alcohol related problems with kids than maybe in California, or anywhere from the middle to the southern thirds of the country, where it's not so gray and rainy for so many months of the year. I actually think a lot of that is weather related in how it affects your mood.

I also want to go on record as saying that I am completely 100% in favor of legalizing marijuana. I know that's not the topic here, but it's been brought up so I thought I'd touch on it too. I don't personally use it much at all, maybe once a year on average. I just don't care much about it either way. But I have no objection to it being legalized - it's absolutely true that you see FAR fewer marijuana related accidents and illnesses than you do with alcohol. You never hear about some pot head beating his wife up or going on a shooting rampage at a McDonald's.

As for the legal age of using it however, I think it should be consistent with whatever the legal drinking age is. If there was a massive government-funded campaign to educate, I mean really EDUCATE and not use fear-mongering tactics, kids and adults about alcohol use, and destigmatize it, I think there could be the possibility for a healthy respect for alcohol and the age limit could be lowered. Same for marijuana. I very firmly believe that if alcohol and pot wasn't made to be so alluring by putting tight restrictions on it, and not talking openly about it, it'd be far less of an issue.
The biggest problem here is that kids can't control themselves...it's been said in this thread that the system is backwards, and I agree. You should be able to drink before you can drive, so that you know how you react under alcohol (not that I'm saying you should drink and drive), but being thrown into a situation where you can drink publicly at 21 might cause people to think they're okay to drive. Now, my parents (and parents in general in Europe) taught me and my brother that if we were going to drink, to not overdo it and to not be stupid about it. Over there, we also had more public transportation, so getting home wasn't really a problem. My mom always told me that it was okay for me to come home drunk, she'd rather have me home than outside somewhere were I can't be held responsible for my actions. I don't know the statistics, but if you looked it up I'm sure there's more fatalities due to alcohol here than in Europe, or areas with similar laws and views.

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:50 PM
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QUOTE (RickJamesBish @ Dec 16, 2008 - 12:30 PM) *
>The biggest problem here is that kids can't control myself


Well that's odd...

laugh.gif
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QUOTE (RickJamesBish @ Dec 16, 2008 - 2:30 PM) *
>The biggest problem here is that kids can't control myself
You're drunk right now, Aren't you?

Or do you swear to Drunk that you're not god?

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:10 PM

QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM)Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW!QUOTE (DEATH @ Nov 11, 2008 - 5:40 PM)Damn D-Man - most impressive.QUOTE (99GT @ Nov 14, 2008 - 4:04 PM)D-Man's post should be a stickyQUOTE (samir0189 @ Nov 4, 2008 - 10:50 AM)LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts.
^^ I think he means "When I was a kid, I couldn't control myself when I drank" wink.gif


This post has been edited by 96bluevert: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:14 PM

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QUOTE (96bluevert @ Dec 16, 2008 - 3:12 PM) *
>^^ I think he means "When I was a kid, I couldn't control myself when I drank" wink.gif


I don't care. I still think he's drunk right now.


frown.gif ...lucky... frown.gif

QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM)Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW!QUOTE (DEATH @ Nov 11, 2008 - 5:40 PM)Damn D-Man - most impressive.QUOTE (99GT @ Nov 14, 2008 - 4:04 PM)D-Man's post should be a stickyQUOTE (samir0189 @ Nov 4, 2008 - 10:50 AM)LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts.
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QUOTE (GriffGirl @ Dec 16, 2008 - 12:59 PM) *
>in regions that are similar to the UK like here where I am in the Pacific Northwest, I think there would be more alcohol related problems with kids than maybe in California, or anywhere from the middle to the southern thirds of the country, where it's not so gray and rainy for so many months of the year. I actually think a lot of that is weather related in how it affects your mood.

I very firmly believe that if alcohol and pot wasn't made to be so alluring by putting tight restrictions on it, and not talking openly about it, it'd be far less of an issue.


I totally agree 100% with what you are saying here. Living here in MN and dealing with winter can be downright depressing for us, and drinking is how many people get through it all. People I’ve met who never grew up around here have been borderline shocked to learn about the consumption habits average Joe has (I’d also like to point out that our DUI / DWI laws are some of the most lenient in the country...). In my opinion it's not so much the age of the person using being the problem, but the reason why they choose to use. With that said, I used to go out to bars and nightclubs when I was underage MUCH more than I do now. Looking back, it was for the fact that it felt exciting to be able to do something relatively exclusive for a person my age. If any 18 year old could do the same, I highly doubt I would have been as interested…

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Edited for you OCD people, gimme me a break, it's midterm week.
And that's the reason i used to walk around with a pocket full of the substances i had back in highschool. kindasad.gif

EDIT: Mind you that now i realize that this made me a dumbsh!t; but back in the day it was "cool" rolleyes.gif Damn we were stupid as kids mad.gif

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 16, 2008 - 5:00 PM

QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM)Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW!QUOTE (DEATH @ Nov 11, 2008 - 5:40 PM)Damn D-Man - most impressive.QUOTE (99GT @ Nov 14, 2008 - 4:04 PM)D-Man's post should be a stickyQUOTE (samir0189 @ Nov 4, 2008 - 10:50 AM)LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts.
Edited for you OCD people, gimme me a break, it's midterm week.
The way it was explained to me was that your brain doesnt fully develop/reach full maturity until about 21-25 years of age (Depending on the person) so when you drink you thin your blood out and induce dehydration which essentially starves your, not fully developed, brain. its been a while since ive been in school so I could be slightly off but yea..

Fred"...Armed with backbone and busted zoo gates, promising you from the bottom of my harmonica pocket - FOREVER - you will never have another lonely holiday..."
Then why is it that after a few beers, i find myself as the smartest person in the world?


laugh.gif

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QUOTE (D-Man @ Dec 17, 2008 - 7:08 AM) *
>Then why is it that after a few beers, i find myself as the smartest person in the world?


laugh.gif



I know huh? Hit the bar and after a few drinks everyones a philosophical juggernaut that has every political issue resolved, good times lol

Fred"...Armed with backbone and busted zoo gates, promising you from the bottom of my harmonica pocket - FOREVER - you will never have another lonely holiday..."
Bwahahahahaha


Fred"...Armed with backbone and busted zoo gates, promising you from the bottom of my harmonica pocket - FOREVER - you will never have another lonely holiday..."
^^^ that's one intimidating looking bird kindasad.gif ^^^

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