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Benefits of going VVT-i? - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #71336 80 posts Started by Random_Stranger
Random_Stranger
#1
Ok, so I just found out that VVT-i was like dual variable valve timing for HP and TQ. So anyone know how this is beneficial or worse in let's say a 3sgte engine? As I am aware there is a 4th gen engine that has this VVT-i technology (I think).

(I had made a n00b out of myself with the original posting, so I made this thread up to make up for it in another n00bish fashion, but with more to gain from it than my original thread, so my bad.)

This post has been edited by Random_Stranger: Dec 28, 2009 - 6:58 AM
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
BonzaiCelica
#3
Actually the 4th gen 3sgte that came in caldina st215 does not have vvt-i.

4th gen 3sgte Specs from what I know:

-Air to Air Intercooler
-Better designed intake manifold
-No distributor (4 individual coil on plug)

thats about all I know. Only the 3sge beams redtop has vvt-i on the intake manifold, which Im sure you aware of.
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
96bluevert
#4
^^What he said. Only the BEAMS 3sge had VVT-i in the 6th gens.
"A true car enthusiast can see the potential in any car"QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Oct 3, 2008 - 2:01 PM)i rather be a slow turtle in risk of extinction, than a fast locust, that you can see everywhere and need to be terminated.
Random_Stranger
#5
>
QUOTE (96bluevert @ Dec 28, 2009 - 11:39 AM) *
>^^What he said. Only the BEAMS 3sge had VVT-i in the 6th gens.


Then is it true that the black top Beams engine ran the Dual VVT-i?
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
Supersprynt
#6
Yes, the black-top Altezza beams had dual (intake & exhaust) vvti.
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manphibian
#7
As i understand it, variable valve timing is more about emmisions and economy than it is performance......
-LukeMy Flickr
Random_Stranger
#8
>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:05 PM) *
>Yes, the black-top Altezza beams had dual (intake & exhaust) vvti.


Oh ok, cool thanks

>
QUOTE (manphibian @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:10 PM) *
>As i understand it, variable valve timing is more about emmisions and economy than it is performance......



Oh, so that's why nobody really likes it then. But don't they still produce more TQ than Vtec engines?
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
Supersprynt
#9
They help overall efficiency. Power, fuel economy, emissions. There's not a whole lot of power to be gained. VTEC is essentially the same thing. Both are timing controllers.
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Random_Stranger
#10
>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:29 PM) *
>They help overall efficiency. Power, fuel economy, emissions. There's not a whole lot of power to be gained. VTEC is essentially the same thing. Both are timing controllers.



Oh ok, but don't all variable valve timing on engine by different make have essentially a specific design that separates them? I am certain most of you are saying "Faust! Read on it foo!" but this is just for discussion sake. Because as I said, I failed big time on the original thread and so I just put this up instead. Otherwise I would have just deleted this thread if I had the ability to.

Like, for instance, if VVT-i were included in a newer 3sgte engine, would anyone be interested in that? Just going off of what they know about the 3sgte, and what they know about VVT-i and it's properties.

This post has been edited by Random_Stranger: Dec 28, 2009 - 7:04 PM
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
HaysoosKreesto
#11
I would be quite interested if they ever came out with an updated version of 3sgte wink.gif.
Brand new 6gc owner! (sort of 2011)The world is moving around a sun, the sun moves around a local arm of the galaxy, the local arm of the galaxy moves around a gigantic black hole.
Supersprynt
#12
They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.
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Random_Stranger
#13
>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:49 PM) *
>They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.



Oh ok, and those are "Dual", yes?
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
Hanyo
#14
>
QUOTE (manphibian @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:10 PM) *
>As i understand it, variable valve timing is more about emmisions and economy than it is performance......



that is not entirely true.

vvti is only for emissions on the eco box motors aka 1zfe.

But once you get into the IS-F engine, you will get vvt for horse power.


Hanyo
#15
>
QUOTE (Random_Stranger @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:03 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:29 PM) *
>They help overall efficiency. Power, fuel economy, emissions. There's not a whole lot of power to be gained. VTEC is essentially the same thing. Both are timing controllers.



Oh ok, but don't all variable valve timing on engine by different make have essentially a specific design that separates them? I am certain most of you are saying "Faust! Read on it foo!" but this is just for discussion sake. Because as I said, I failed big time on the original thread and so I just put this up instead. Otherwise I would have just deleted this thread if I had the ability to.

Like, for instance, if VVT-i were included in a newer 3sgte engine, would anyone be interested in that? Just going off of what they know about the 3sgte, and what they know about VVT-i and it's properties.



vvti doesn't really help with turbo charge engines because under boost the air restriction bottle neck would be lessened. VVTi was orginally created to help all motor engine breath better while maintaining torque. This is the same reason why you dont see motorcycle engines with vvti. They don't need torque so everything part of that engine can be geared towards reving up and making a ton of horse power.

Reving a turbo charge engine that high is simply not a good idea.

To really beat a dead horse, vvt was design for all motor engines to shift the power band higher into the RPM range with out the consequences of no torque, bad idle, bad fuel economy.
richee3
#16
>
QUOTE (Hanyo @ Dec 28, 2009 - 8:09 PM) *
>vvti doesn't really help with turbo charge engines because under boost the air restriction bottle neck would be lessened. VVTi was orginally created to help all motor engine breath better while maintaining torque. This is the same reason why you dont see motorcycle engines with vvti. They don't need torque so everything part of that engine can be geared towards reving up and making a ton of horse power.

Reving a turbo charge engine that high is simply not a good idea.

To really beat a dead horse, vvt was design for all motor engines to shift the power band higher into the RPM range with out the consequences of no torque, bad idle, bad fuel economy.


Everything needs more torque wink.gif

Nah, just playing. But seriously, this thread is a good read. I thought VVT was good for both more power and improved efficiency, not just one or the other. I am getting a good education from you guys.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
Rusty
#17
>
QUOTE (Hanyo @ Dec 29, 2009 - 2:09 PM) *
>vvti doesn't really help with turbo charge engines because under boost the air restriction bottle neck would be lessened. VVTi was orginally created to help all motor engine breath better while maintaining torque. This is the same reason why you dont see motorcycle engines with vvti. They don't need torque so everything part of that engine can be geared towards reving up and making a ton of horse power.

Reving a turbo charge engine that high is simply not a good idea.

To really beat a dead horse, vvt was design for all motor engines to shift the power band higher into the RPM range with out the consequences of no torque, bad idle, bad fuel economy.


did you hear about the tom's tuned altezza came out blacktop VVTi 3S-GE+T , only 100 where made smile.gif (came out with heaps of toms stuff like ecu airfilter suspension exhaust and among other things) there is also a 3S-GZE (blitz supecharger)

or the updated 1jzgte (vvti turbo) or 2jz-gte (vvti turbo)

ST202 SS-II CELICA threadNew Zealand members check inSticky thread's: How to contribute and troubleshoot.
Random_Stranger
#18
>
QUOTE (Rusty @ Dec 28, 2009 - 10:45 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Hanyo @ Dec 29, 2009 - 2:09 PM) *
>vvti doesn't really help with turbo charge engines because under boost the air restriction bottle neck would be lessened. VVTi was orginally created to help all motor engine breath better while maintaining torque. This is the same reason why you dont see motorcycle engines with vvti. They don't need torque so everything part of that engine can be geared towards reving up and making a ton of horse power.

Reving a turbo charge engine that high is simply not a good idea.

To really beat a dead horse, vvt was design for all motor engines to shift the power band higher into the RPM range with out the consequences of no torque, bad idle, bad fuel economy.


did you hear about the tom's tuned altezza came out blacktop VVTi 3S-GE+T , only 100 where made smile.gif (came out with heaps of toms stuff like ecu airfilter suspension exhaust and among other things) there is also a 3S-GZE (blitz supecharger)

or the updated 1jzgte (vvti turbo) or 2jz-gte (vvti turbo)





Sweet find! Any specs?
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
hatchy_gt-s
#19
>
QUOTE (Hanyo @ Dec 29, 2009 - 1:03 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (manphibian @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:10 PM) *
>As i understand it, variable valve timing is more about emmisions and economy than it is performance......



that is not entirely true.

vvti is only for emissions on the eco box motors aka 1zfe.

But once you get into the IS-F engine, you will get vvt for horse power.


acually the IS-F has vvtli so it controlls lift allowing it to reach higher rpms due to increased valve lash. the 1zz uses vvti and the 2zz (found in 7th gen GT-S celicas) have vvtli, that is why you hear them say "I'm hittin lift"(worse saying ever). BUT none of this is useful without high compression ie the 1zz and 2zz have 10.5/11.5to1 comp. and the 4age 20v came with vvt(vacuum opp.) also high comp.
Hanyo
#20
>
QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Dec 29, 2009 - 12:45 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Hanyo @ Dec 29, 2009 - 1:03 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (manphibian @ Dec 28, 2009 - 2:10 PM) *
>As i understand it, variable valve timing is more about emmisions and economy than it is performance......



that is not entirely true.

vvti is only for emissions on the eco box motors aka 1zfe.

But once you get into the IS-F engine, you will get vvt for horse power.


acually the IS-F has vvtli so it controlls lift allowing it to reach higher rpms due to increased valve lash. the 1zz uses vvti and the 2zz (found in 7th gen GT-S celicas) have vvtli, that is why you hear them say "I'm hittin lift"(worse saying ever). BUT none of this is useful without high compression ie the 1zz and 2zz have 10.5/11.5to1 comp. and the 4age 20v came with vvt(vacuum opp.) also high comp.



i was just generalizing variable valve timing and wrapping up the entire valve timing in a short phrase of vvt; because what i said applies to vtechi and nvcs and what ever those crazy manufactures want to call it.

vvt is some fancy technology. nissan's nvcs variable valve timing was able to use the valves it self to control the engine removing the need for a throttle body.

This post has been edited by Hanyo: Dec 30, 2009 - 4:05 AM
Smaay
#21


>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:49 PM) *
>They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.



the only engine with Lift is the 2ZZ-GE in the 7th gen celica.


and you guys have no clue about VVT. yes economy is part of the reason for it, but VVT allows the cams to adjust to maintain a flat torque curve thus the horsepower to rise. goto newcelica.org and look at all the dyno sheets posted. horsepower just keeps climbing and torque remains flat. look at a car like the 3S-GTE. both curves rise then reack peak and fall off. which is why people changes cams. so those curves can be shifted. the benifits of VVT is that with some ECUs and piggyback you can adjust the valve timing making more power. let me give you an example.....in my 7th gen celica. i was making about 415 HP under 25psi. once we started adjusting the VVT tuning. i made over 130HP giving me 545HP.

VVT has amazing possibilities. you just have to know how to harness it
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
Random_Stranger
#22
^^^ That's a fast frigging 7th gen
91 MR2 Turbo SW20, 92 MR2 Turbo SW20, 95 Celica GT ST204
hatchy_gt-s
#23
>
QUOTE (Smaay @ Dec 29, 2009 - 11:33 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:49 PM) *
>They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.



the only engine with Lift is the 2ZZ-GE in the 7th gen celica. >>>>>>= WRONG!!!>>>>>>



the 2zz came in the lotus, matrix, vibe, corolla xrs,corolla(euro&aussi),99 SS-ii celica
blu94gt
#24
A couple different people have hit the answer. VVTI or any variable-valve-timing setup, is to maximize power and efficiency by changing the timing throughout the power band. Here's the explanation an old shop teacher gave me:

Know how old muscle cars and dragsters have a big "cam lope" at idle (sound like they are barely staying running), but they SCREAM when revved up? That's because the timing is non-variable, they opted for a cam that only gives power in the high-end.

Variable valve timing can allow you to use a set of cams that will produce a smooth, efficient power curve, and by changing the timing you can allow for that power to exist throughout the RPM range, rather than just a very specific range.
1999 Celica GT
HaysoosKreesto
#25
>
QUOTE (Smaay @ Dec 29, 2009 - 6:33 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:49 PM) *
>They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.



the only engine with Lift is the 2ZZ-GE in the 7th gen celica.


and you guys have no clue about VVT. yes economy is part of the reason for it, but VVT allows the cams to adjust to maintain a flat torque curve thus the horsepower to rise. goto newcelica.org and look at all the dyno sheets posted. horsepower just keeps climbing and torque remains flat. look at a car like the 3S-GTE. both curves rise then reack peak and fall off. which is why people changes cams. so those curves can be shifted. the benifits of VVT is that with some ECUs and piggyback you can adjust the valve timing making more power. let me give you an example.....in my 7th gen celica. i was making about 415 HP under 25psi. once we started adjusting the VVT tuning. i made over 130HP giving me 545HP.

VVT has amazing possibilities. you just have to know how to harness it

Out of curiosity, how do you keep your tires from spinning? As I understand it, anything above 300 hp is bad tire spin for FWD.
Brand new 6gc owner! (sort of 2011)The world is moving around a sun, the sun moves around a local arm of the galaxy, the local arm of the galaxy moves around a gigantic black hole.
richee3
#26
>
QUOTE (HaysoosKreesto @ Dec 30, 2009 - 4:13 AM) *
>Out of curiosity, how do you keep your tires from spinning? As I understand it, anything above 300 hp is bad tire spin for FWD.


Depends on the weight of the car. For example, a Nissan Maxima/Toyota Camry/any other full size FWD car like that wouldn't spin near as bad as a Celica. In the instance of a 6th gen Celica, you can put a limited slip tranny in the car to reduce wheel spin.

That's an awful lot of power though, and I would imagine wheel spin is unavoidable. It's just a matter of how best to reduce it.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
Smaay
#27
>
QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Dec 29, 2009 - 10:01 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Smaay @ Dec 29, 2009 - 11:33 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Supersprynt @ Dec 28, 2009 - 4:49 PM) *
>They're not exactly the same, but they are the same concept. VVTi is now VVTLi - which includes lift and can be found on most Toyota motors.



the only engine with Lift is the 2ZZ-GE in the 7th gen celica. >>>>>>= WRONG!!!>>>>>>



the 2zz came in the lotus, matrix, vibe, corolla xrs,corolla(euro&aussi),99 SS-ii celica



yeah yeah yeah, but it started in teh Celica. of course i knew it came in those other cars.
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
hatchy_gt-s
#28
^ once again no it was the elise in 2004
garin
#29
>
QUOTE (garin @ Jan 7, 2010 - 12:11 AM) *
>screw the sti and the evo. if there is a will there is a way. if you want it bad enough you will get one. look at pipes. he has a "gt4" in america. there's a real one in philly too. DO YOUR RESEARCH!

manny has a nice write up of the beams 2.0 engine swap that steph and dustin did....
"Slow your roll"http://www.flickr.com/photos/g_styer/http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=pr...mp;id=601896863
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