Theres not much in it at all, 4WD will get away 1st, and hold its ground long enough that the FWD will struggle to pass it before 400m.

From there on, Any additional power is more useful to the 4WD since spinning all the way through 3rd gear isnt going to help.

>


I think you guys are forgetting the fact that a track surface and a regular road surface is completely different. I'm no expert at ALL, but the drag strip is wayyy stickier than normal driving roads. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that help with the wheels pulling the car, rather than spinning out like how it does on normal roads??? I know that it wouldn't stop the spinning out COMPLETELY, but wouldn't it help out a lot? I have a FWD 3S, but I haven't gotten a chance to take this car to the track as yet. If I do anytime soon I'll post up my times.



-Ryan

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haha.. ok who's done faster than 13.6? and has a time slip to prove it?

not in the same league, but the car who started it all for FWD fans

CLICK !!!

Pressure 2, You definitely have room to improve. My old supercharged mustang would trap in the 108/109 range, but it ran high 12's just by cutting high 1.7x 60's. Even with FWD, with the bfg's you should be able to get in the 1.9 range I would think, which might get you into the 13.2 range. Bump up the boost a bit you could probably touch the high 12's.

Practice haha!

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 25, 2011 - 8:48 PM

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ohh most definetly.
i dont hit the track more than maybe once every couple years, i've only been down the track maybe 12-16 times, total.
from all the research i've done with similar configuration cars, a 108mph trap should be good for mid to high 12's on it own.

my crappy 60 ft is what kills me.
FWIW, they say a 10th in the 60 is 2 or 3 10th on the top end.
hell, if i had run a 2.0 60, i would have been in the 12's. and that was with the crap top end of the 5sfte, and the 6k rpm redline. ( = shifting to 5th at the end of the track!)
with the 3rd gen, high 12's should be easy. hopfully ill have a chance to make it to the track this year!

13-14 second 1/4 is quick enough already. if you want faster, build your whole engine otherwise you'll start breaking things.

>
like what?

>


Uhh, I've heard of others putting down +700 WHP on the 3SGTE engine and have not even rebuilt any internals. Never seen it first hand, but a bunch of people I know have talked about the same car. Plus, he's been running it at the track for over 6 months now. But that's 3sgTe, I know the non-turbo'd edition has weaker internals.


-Ryan

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Of course it has. That's why nobody is making any turbo kit for the 3sge, with or without the vvti. The engine is already pushed to its limit by Yamaha. The regular NA 2 liter engines produce about 120-150 hp, while the 3sge already produces 175 hp without any variable valve timing etc. They know that an engine that's already pushed to its limits can't be pushed too far without serious enhancements.

My dilemma is why nobody does forged internals for the 3sge, in order to make it "accept" turbo... It shouldn't be such a big deal

>

The reason no one does is because there is already a 3sgte out there. Why make parts to build the 3sge when you have a better platform by using the 3sgte

Well to agree with Quick_shifter, some of use would/could find a use out of 3sge blocks. They are easier to find in many cases, and they are nearly indentical to the 3sgte block. Perfect for a rebuild option.

But i see what you mean MKernz, in that why pay 800-2000 for a 3sgte that can accept lower compression, forged internals for a turbo build, and then have to worry about all the other nessicites that you would need, when you could start off with a 3sgte and just go from there....

Then again, im not choosing sides just trying to see everyone's point of veiw...honestly where i stand right now, it is just a case by case basis...depends on what you can do and what price you are willing to pay!!

Well, I would rather buy a turbo kit for my 3sge, instead of buying a 3sgte engine, for the following reasons:
1)A 3sgte engine shipped from the States to Europe would cost me about $3500 to $5000, depending if it's an engine clip or just an engine. A bolt-on turbo kit with all the accessories would probably cost me around $2000, because it's base price is lower and shiping is also cheaper because of the weight.
2)3sgte engines aren't so easy to find, plus they weren't manufactured in a big number, so they'll soon dissappear from the market or their price will go higher. In case i'll destroy my engine somehow, I'd rather be looking for another 3sge than a 3sgte; right now, as I'm typing this, I can think of 3 3sge engines for sale just in Romania, and I know all of those 3 sellers; and that's not all: if I check the local market right now, there are probably 15-20 6gc's equipped with a 3sge engine, for the price of 2000-3000 $. On the other hand, THERE IS NO ST205 IN ROMANIA and, of course, no 3sge Beams.
3)The local authorities here make it very difficult to change your engine with a more powerful one, even if it would bolt right up to your chassis and stuff. If I change my engine entirely to a 3sgte, I have to have my car checked for road safety, and that test is very expensive and hard to pass. They would never accept a FWD 3sgte, simply because it was never installed on a Celica (I mean the fwd version).

Probably there aren't very many guys in the same situation as me, but I bet there are a few, mostly in Europe. If you search all the european ebay's, you won't find more than 3 or 4 3sgte engines for sale and it's very expensive for us to order it in the States. Also, the 3sge-3sgte swap is illegal in many european states.

Other than that, I agree: it's a lot easier and safer to install a 3sgte than convert a 3sge from n/a to turbo.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wouldn't 3S-GTE internals fit the 3S-GE? It doesn't seem like parts should be that hard to find for it if you changed what you were looking for. There are probably plenty of parts for the 3S-GTE that will fit the 3S-GE.

SO I'm not sure if I saw it in all that but did we come up with a approximate 0-60 time for a stock 3s (w/e153) swap? just curious. I would try it myself but I am still following the proper rules of "breaking-in" a newly BUILT motor. (hate on, I'm following them.)

No exact numbers on this yet?

heres the final word.

FWD3SGTE will never touch a GT4 in 1st and 2nd gear. period. GT4 doesn't even need to make half its capable boost to pull away from 1st or 2nd.

assuming both have identical engines, the FWD3SGTE will start reeling in the GT4 in 3rd gear, by the end of 3rd, both cars will cross the 400m line in the same time - high 12 - low 13

if this were a race on the highway where both cars dropped down to 3rd gear, the FWD3SGTE would definitely pull away as the GT4 would run out of puff trying to break through the wind at high speeds.

NOW..... when tuning comes into play.

FWD3SGTE has already used its entire capacity for transfering power to the ground, 3rd gear will spin, even 4th will chirp.

the GT4 still has twice the available traction, and will happily accept a further 100% power increase, maybe 1st will spin from 0-40km/h, but then 3rd and 4th gear will break through the wind and **** all over the FWD3SGTE which has probably already spun out (high speed, high power, low traction)