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Onnaj's 1998 Celica ST to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #88822 66 posts Started by onnaj
Nice job trying something different! The blacktop is a good engine and though underpowered by modern comparison is still decent. I agree that the sound of a properly built blackop is wonderful! Anyways it looks like you're very detailed and doing your research so I'm sure it will turn out well. Good luck and looking forward to seeing the progress!

1999 Celica GT Auto - GF's car1996 4Runner SR5 5sp - Ol' Faithful2006 Evo 9 MR - For sale1998 Supra NA Auto very slow
>
QUOTE (Legen-dary @ Apr 4, 2013 - 5:39 PM) *
>Nice job trying something different! The blacktop is a good engine and though underpowered by modern comparison is still decent. I agree that the sound of a properly built blackop is wonderful! Anyways it looks like you're very detailed and doing your research so I'm sure it will turn out well. Good luck and looking forward to seeing the progress!


Thanks! I'll keep you all updated smile.gif

So:
Planning is to the rest of the head work and completely assembly the engine within about 2 weeks. In that time i might get my airbox and cam covers powdercoated. Not going for Stacks yet so the airbox need to look new! biggrin.gif

After that it's time to do the wiring. Got a lot of info already so the wiring shouldn't be a hell of a job. We'll keep the 7AFE harness and adapt the 4AGE 20V harness. Don't know if i told this already but a friend of mine works at DAF Netherlands. He does wirings and schematics all day long so that'll work out just fine.

When that's ready, yes it transplanting time! Need to get a throttle cable for that and then a looooooooong 1500 miles to run it in. (don't know if you call this that way in english language wink.gif)

So progress i being made over here!

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
>
QUOTE (onnaj @ Apr 4, 2013 - 1:04 PM) *
>When that's ready, yes it transplanting time! Need to get a throttle cable for that and then a looooooooong 1500 miles to run it in. (don't know if you call this that way in english language wink.gif)


We call that a "break-in" period.

1999 Celica GT Auto - GF's car1996 4Runner SR5 5sp - Ol' Faithful2006 Evo 9 MR - For sale1998 Supra NA Auto very slow
>
QUOTE (Legen-dary @ Apr 5, 2013 - 7:38 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (onnaj @ Apr 4, 2013 - 1:04 PM) *
>When that's ready, yes it transplanting time! Need to get a throttle cable for that and then a looooooooong 1500 miles to run it in. (don't know if you call this that way in english language wink.gif)


We call that a "break-in" period.


Thanks! Never too old to learn biggrin.gif

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Update time with better pix smile.gif

Have been really busy with washing the head again and again. After it was time for grinding the valves. Yes, there still was some time left smile.gif What i've done then? What you think of cleaning the intake and exhaust ports with a dremel and a little wire brush. My girlfriend still wasn't home so what i did next what getting started with polishing (not porting) the exhaust side of the head. I don't think it will give me loads of HP, but the air will flow better and get the heat out of it a bit quicker. The inlet i won't touch. The inlet ports are pretty smooth already from the valve guides till the combustion chamber. Only flow that could do a bit better will be the flow from the throttle bodies to the valve guides. If that has any advantage? I don't know. Opinions vary about that, so i'm sticking with the exhaust side.

But again, photo's will tell the story biggrin.gif

For your memory, the uncleaned head:


Cleaned head:




Grinded valve:


Not grinded valve:


Uncleaned combustion chamber and in/exhaust but grinded valva:


Cleaend and 1st polish of combustion chamber:


Cleaned and polished exhaust port




Ow forgot, the cam cover is also clean again and will be sprayed very soon:




My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
That was yesterday news to be honest. But i wanted to keep the posting complete so i had to post that first wink.gif

I wasn't really satisfied with the polishing yet, so i bought another dremel tool to finish it. I must admist, i like the results. This looks quite a bit better then yesterday. Took also a lot of time!

Some extra pictures (photos has been shot with my Sony HX5V cam, i'm very satisfied with it! wink.gif)










Combustion chamber (inlet unpolished, exhaust side polished)

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
porting and polishing my 5sfe head made a big difference in throttle response and a decent power upgrade... i dont have any truthful numbers however the "butt" dyno says more power not alot but definitely more.
>
QUOTE (b22ri22an @ Apr 14, 2013 - 10:50 AM) *
>porting and polishing my 5sfe head made a big difference in throttle response and a decent power upgrade... i dont have any truthful numbers however the "butt" dyno says more power not alot but definitely more.


every HP is welcome. And since the head is off why don't grab it! tongue.gif


My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Time for another update:

Have been busy a lot with with installing the valves en valve stem steals. How stupid could i be, trying to put the seals completely to the bottom of the valve guide :S. Should have read better before. Killed 6 of them and i have to remove the rest of the valves to check the other seals. When comparing how easily the valves could go in and out, i spotted a little rip/tear in one of the seals. When checking 2 other seals i spotted the same problem frown.gif. This is really expensive teaching money, but learned a lot.
Wow and how difficult the valve retainer locks wil go in position. This took my a LOT of time. And worst is that because of the seals i can do it all over again frown.gif

Good news? Yes, i picked the stock airbox and exhaust header up from the powder coating. They really look as new, or maybe even better then new biggrin.gif I'm really happy with that and it's worth every penny!

Because i had to wait on the new valve seals i went ahead with the throttle body. I removed the injectors and changed them for some i had ultrasonic cleaned before. Changed the o-rings and vibration insulators for new one's and (pre-)mounted the brackets.

Here are the pictures:

Powder coated airbox:




Powder coated header:


Cleaned injectors:


Throttle body with painted brackets:

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
how much fun did you have porting? this is how i felt after mine rolleyes.gif with my build, all i did to the head was port and radius cut the valves and a 30 degree backcut. Pretty sure it made a hell of a difference. Head work is %60 of your power. nice work.
>
QUOTE (celica74 @ Apr 18, 2013 - 2:37 AM) *
>how much fun did you have porting? this is how i felt after mine rolleyes.gif with my build, all i did to the head was port and radius cut the valves and a 30 degree backcut. Pretty sure it made a hell of a difference. Head work is %60 of your power. nice work.


The porting was really fun to do. You can see literally see and feel the difference. The head work is now done. Going to bring it to the rebuild shop today to do a leak test. When that's okay i'll be mounting the head on the block this evening or tomorrow and then i'll be able to mount the cams, cam bridge, bearings etc.

We've also get all the paint of the cam cover and today it'll be painted in black again. It's getting better and better, i can't wait to have this engine in!

This is the assembled head:




My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Yes i'm happy!! Today the engine head was vaccuum leak tested and it was perfect! Not bad for my first valve grinding job smile.gif Have to note that the valves weren;t that bad though wink.gif But still i'm very pleased with it. Now i can continue working on the engine!

So updates will be there soon!:)

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Updating time!

Yesterday i've managed to mount the oil filter bracket and the oil filter first. After that ive mounted a new headgasket and reinstalled the cams. I was a bit afraid of installing them because they were up a little on the end. Asked about this at the rebuild shop but they say it is absolutely normal. There's no point where the cams don't touch the valve lifters. Just ensure that the crankcase pulley is at TDC and the dots on the cams are alligned properly. To be 100% sure it was advisable to turn the crankcase about 25-30 degrees counterclockwise. Then all the pistons would be halfway, so hitting the pistons with the valves would be impossible. So we've mounted them in multiple passes and very secure. So not thighten them to hard right away.
Also i've installed the water outlet and inlet and some small things. I wanted to mount a new thermostat but the new one differs a lot from the old one. Have to ask if that won't be a problem.
Hopefully tomorrow i'm going to check the valve clearance, put the new hydraulic tensioner on and install the cam cover.

Anyways, here are some pictures:

New headgasket on the block:


Marked the headbolts to ensure toquing @ the good patern:


Used some hulp for the toquing to turn them 90 degress twice wink.gif:


Notice the white mark on the head bolts. I did this to ensure i would turn them exactly 180 degrees in total:


Mounted cams:




Oil filter and bracket with new seals:


Thermostat difference (new one is not a genuine btw):




My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
why you no c160?!

proud =3sgte SWAPPED= '95 Celica ST owner [calling it the GT2 or half-trac]309,000 miles n' ....dead-> ALIVE AGAIN!! ~14,000 miles driven
>
QUOTE (onnaj @ Apr 15, 2013 - 3:36 PM) *
>Time for another update:

Have been busy a lot with with installing the valves en valve stem steals. How stupid could i be, trying to put the seals completely to the bottom of the valve guide :S. Should have read better before. Killed 6 of them and i have to remove the rest of the valves to check the other seals. When comparing how easily the valves could go in and out, i spotted a little rip/tear in one of the seals. When checking 2 other seals i spotted the same problem frown.gif. This is really expensive teaching money, but learned a lot.
Wow and how difficult the valve retainer locks wil go in position. This took my a LOT of time. And worst is that because of the seals i can do it all over again frown.gif

Good news? Yes, i picked the stock airbox and exhaust header up from the powder coating. They really look as new, or maybe even better then new biggrin.gif I'm really happy with that and it's worth every penny!

Because i had to wait on the new valve seals i went ahead with the throttle body. I removed the injectors and changed them for some i had ultrasonic cleaned before. Changed the o-rings and vibration insulators for new one's and (pre-)mounted the brackets.

Here are the pictures:

Powder coated airbox:




Powder coated header:


Cleaned injectors:


Throttle body with painted brackets:


UHHHH Gloss black engine parts!? im drooling!, so tempting since ive done so much gloss black around the car, I need to get into that engine bay lol

white 1997 Celica GT***FOR SALEblue 1995 4Runner V6solddark blue/black 1991 MR2 NAsolddark green 1998 Accord V6solddark green/blue 1994 Celica STsolddark green 1997 3.0CLtraded
Um yeah, gloss black engine parts can look really good!

1999 Celica GT Auto - GF's car1996 4Runner SR5 5sp - Ol' Faithful2006 Evo 9 MR - For sale1998 Supra NA Auto very slow
So has been a long time since the last updates but the engine is in for a week or 2 now!

I had to grab the power steering lines from a 4EFE Corolla and also took the reservoir of it. I used a part from the OEM power steering line from the Blacktop (it was ofcourse cut! frown.gif) and let a hydraulic company press it together with the Corolla power steering line. Its a great fit, you can see in the pictures below.

For the throttle cable i grabbed a cable from a 93-er Celica 5SFE from Rockauto. It's a bit long but besides that it's a nice fit. We've made an adapter plate for the throttle bracket so it cannot move.

For the igniter we've also made an adapter plate so that's also a nice fit. Going to paint it black later this week, so that it's completely finished! biggrin.gif

At the first startup we had 4 codes or so. IAT (not connected), MAP, TPS and some code i don't remember. After three double check the vacuum lines and connecting the IAT all the codes were gone except for the TPS code, 41.

And that one wouldn’t go away. I’ve bought a new tps, asjusted it with Blacktop manual, but still the code. It made me go crazy. Then i’ve decided to meausure the voltage at the ECU of the VTA and E2 connectors. They voltages should be around 0.3V @ idle and about 4.7V @ WOT. I’ve meausured 4.7 @ idle and 0.00V @ WOT. Hey that’s strange i thougt, look like it’s upside down or so. Double checked the manual if i mounted the sensor upside down, but i didn’t.
So later that evening i had a sudden inspiration. I remembered using the TPS connector from the 7AFE while that one is exactly the same. So i thought: are those pins located at the same position as the one of the 4AGE TPS??? So i went to bed and first thing in the morning was grabbing the manual and walk to the car. And YES!!!! found the problem! They’re located in the opposite way. So i’ve repinned the connector and gone is the code biggrin.gif

The engine runs a lot smoother now! Still running too rich, cause i can smell the fuel and hear some little backfires now and then. Also the starts are a bit difficult now and then. It seems to run on 3 cylinders for a second and then it runs fine.
Have to sort out what’s causing this. Maybe the O2 sensor had a hard time after the first starts with all the oil and residues of the painted parts wink.gif Have to check this out later on.

Also the valves are ticking a bit. But they were about 0.01-0.02 mm out of spec…meaning too loose. I’ve didn’t buy new shims while mostly the valves are tighten up after a few thousand km. So hopefully that’ll go away or otherwise i have to re-adjust them.

So the pictures:

New harness made by myself biggrin.gif:












Engine compartment:


power steering lines and reservoir:


My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Gefeliciteerd, gaaf.

'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
Danku! bowdown.gif

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
awesome work! glad you figured everything out.

*1997 Celica ST - 3SGE Greytop BEAMS*1977 Celica RA29 - Classic Cruiser*2005 Matrix AWD - dedded but still hanging around like a ghost2019 Rav4 XLE Premium - Sports mode is fun.
>
QUOTE (cheela @ Jun 4, 2013 - 9:39 PM) *
>awesome work! glad you figured everything out.


Thanks man!

Still have to figure while it's running so damn rich. Maybe i should wait till the break in period is over. Today i've changed the injectors for other onces without much succes. The first time i changed them it runned only on 3 cylinders. So i grabbed another set that was lying around resting and the car runs back on 4 cylinders again. But still i miss power. Still seems that it runs way to rich, giving me some little backfire in the airbox...i must admit does sound nice, but shouldn't do it.

But i'm also proud, very proud i must say while today i've done compression tests...all cylinders reach 190 PSI! That's spec biggrin.gif Not bad for a first time wink.gif

Cylinder 1:


Cylinder 2:


Cylinder 3:


Cylinder 4:


This post has been edited by onnaj: Jun 4, 2013 - 3:51 PM

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
>
QUOTE (onnaj @ Jun 4, 2013 - 3:50 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (cheela @ Jun 4, 2013 - 9:39 PM) *
>awesome work! glad you figured everything out.


Thanks man!

Still have to figure while it's running so damn rich. Maybe i should wait till the break in period is over. Today i've changed the injectors for other onces without much succes. The first time i changed them it runned only on 3 cylinders. So i grabbed another set that was lying around resting and the car runs back on 4 cylinders again. But still i miss power. Still seems that it runs way to rich, giving me some little backfire in the airbox...i must admit does sound nice, but shouldn't do it.

But i'm also proud, very proud i must say while today i've done compression tests...all cylinders reach 190 PSI! That's spec biggrin.gif Not bad for a first time wink.gif



Backfire through the air box usually has to do with timing. Check the plug wires first then check the mechanical timing and make sure you're not a tooth or two off on the timing belt.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Jun 4, 2013 - 4:47 PM

Project ST204.5 99.88946% complete...
Because my car had a car appraisal today i cleaned and waxed it earlier this week. This result is beautifull if i may say mysel biggrin.gif

If you don't like a lot of pictures, skip this topic wink.gif

7th june:














This morning way too early biggrin.gif:


























This post has been edited by onnaj: Jun 9, 2013 - 3:19 AM

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Wow, it looks really nice! I like the rusty equipment in the background. So how much is she worth? smile.gif

1999 Celica GT Auto - GF's car1996 4Runner SR5 5sp - Ol' Faithful2006 Evo 9 MR - For sale1998 Supra NA Auto very slow
>
QUOTE (Legen-dary @ Jun 9, 2013 - 11:41 PM) *
>Wow, it looks really nice! I like the rusty equipment in the background. So how much is she worth? smile.gif


Thanks, I also thought the rusty background would be nice smile.gif

I hear at the end of the week what it's worth....

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
I had a pretty decent appraisal, don't know if it handy to put the value on the internet, but i'm happy with it.

The car has almost done 1500 miles since the rebuild and used somehwere between 0.2 and 0.3 litres of the break-in oil, which is really nothing really.

The valves clearances are all in spec now...did have too wait 2 weeks for the shims to get in and the valve train noise is a lot less. Still hear it, but that is either because of the break-in oil or the VVT cam. So that's something to replace in the near future biggrin.gif

Did rev it some harder already but not past the 6800 redline (of my stock 7AFE rpm gauge wink.gif) and it goes pretty well. I do need another gearbox though, cause my c52 has really really long 2nd and 3th gears. I think i can rev to about 120 km/h (GPS speed, not tacho speed) in second gear. In third it should get near the 180 km/h i guess.

I think i'm going to buy a C160 gearbox, cause they're easier to get here in holland. Don't know if they'll easily fit, but that's something to find out soon smile.gif

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
For the interested people, i've just shot a movie of 8200 rpm Celica ST wink.gif. Don't mind the quality, cause my phone camera was damaged during the rebuild and need a rebuild too smile.gif I think the sound will make it up for this haha

My next project will be a 6 speed gearbox, while the gears are really really long as you can see on the video. @8200 rpm i'm driving 120 on gps in second gear.

It's still running a bit rich and i think i miss about 20-30 hp, but i hope after a while it'll get better. I need to drive it faster and take it (a lot) higher in the rpm range then during the break-in period. Endly that break-in period is over and now it's really happy with 5W30 full synthetic smile.gif

The sound is really awesome, that's going to cost me fuel haha! From 6000 RPM it's like having a little extra turbo or so, cause then it really goes!

Yesterday went to Germany to test if the speed limiter is working and unfortunately it does. It's pretty harsh i must say. Likes like i'm running into a wall when the speed limit is reached. And that's about 192 km/h on GPS.

But here comes the movie! The speed on the tacho it's the real GPS speed, this is caused by my 17" (way too heavy) rims. Hope you enjoy the sound! tongue.gif

Youtube movie

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
Update after a long time: wink.gif

But important news....some present arrived today:

Blacktop flywheel:


Shifter cables and gear lever:


Last but not least...C160 LSD gearbox!! smile.gif:


Hopefully i'm able to mount it somewhere this month! smile.gif

This post has been edited by onnaj: Aug 27, 2013 - 6:51 AM

My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!
sweet! post up another video after you put those in.

*1997 Celica ST - 3SGE Greytop BEAMS*1977 Celica RA29 - Classic Cruiser*2005 Matrix AWD - dedded but still hanging around like a ghost2019 Rav4 XLE Premium - Sports mode is fun.
>
QUOTE (cheela @ Aug 27, 2013 - 3:25 PM) *
>sweet! post up another video after you put those in.


Thanks i will! biggrin.gif

Yesterday i've been busy for about 3-4 hours to clean the gearbox. What a mess it had on the outside. From the inside only a layer of dust, so that's a good sign biggrin.gif But it looks a lot better now already:




My 7AFE to 4AGE 20V Blacktop conversion!