Engine swap questions. - 6G Celicas Forums

kurt95gt

#31

OK this is just getting sad
For starters I'm no fanboy.
I've said what I've had to say about the v6 swap an its just as good of a swap as a 3s if your not worried about only power.

Pressure2: I had a lot of respect for you,your celicas, an what you have brought to this site. But I have lost a lot of respect for you after reading what basically been trash talking from you to box an anyone that has v6 in there post
Say what you want but the 2mz in a celica is one hell of a motor
Mine isn't even at 100% yet an I take out b swap Hondas like there a d series still.
Saying you know how a v6 will be in a celica because you drove a v6 camry is like saying oh I know what a v8 mustsng will feel Cruz I drove a crown Vic
Just because you know a few power numbers for a motor doesn't mean you know crap about how it will run in a car you've never seen it in before
Oh an I'd be willing to be mine or smaays v6 could spank that 300+ HP 3s of your wife on some good twistie roads cuz we haven't thrown off the balance of our celicas with all the extra weight the 3s adds. Powers not everything man....you'd think after owning a celica for 13years you would know that by now

Rant over

95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's94 st hatch my daily driverhttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235n

smkr3w

#32

IBTL.

That is all.

6gcHeroes:808hectortimmybatmandiegotigamak

Smaay

#33

Pressure you and I will go round and round and while you are correct an a great many things, you are ignorant with a few too. look ay my V6 swap dyno numbers. i made 220HP and 240tq. I have sourced a TRD supercharger or contemplated building my own M90 blower. that will put me well over the 300 range and ill still do it for less than a 3S-GTE swap.

ill say it again i drove erynns car with a 3S-GTE in it and i was IMPRESSED! it ran awesome! but she spent about 4000 for it. for what i have under the hood now its still under 2000.

this is going to be a long debate from now on. V6 Vs 3S-GTE

2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac

Box

#34

>

QUOTE (presure2 @ Apr 28, 2013 - 8:01 AM)

>The "f" in the engine code designates it as an economy head, that's not made for performance, or boost.
Can it handle a few lbs, sure, so can ANY motor. But was it designed and built for performance or boost? No.

Also who finds this ironic considering he built a 5S-FE? What was that about having certain extremities in certain orifices?

2001 Miata LS 5-speed

BonzaiCelica

#35

ITS NOT SO MUCH About torque steer. But just getting thr power to the ground efficiently without wheel hop. U cannot do pedal to the medal in 1st and 2nd without loosing grip is what i think most people are after. Yea...

Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514

presure2

#36

>

QUOTE (kurt95gt @ Apr 30, 2013 - 12:17 AM)

>OK this is just getting sad
For starters I'm no fanboy.
I've said what I've had to say about the v6 swap an its just as good of a swap as a 3s if your not worried about only power.

Pressure2: I had a lot of respect for you,your celicas, an what you have brought to this site. But I have lost a lot of respect for you after reading what basically been trash talking from you to box an anyone that has v6 in there post
Say what you want but the 2mz in a celica is one hell of a motor
Mine isn't even at 100% yet an I take out b swap Hondas like there a d series still.
Saying you know how a v6 will be in a celica because you drove a v6 camry is like saying oh I know what a v8 mustsng will feel Cruz I drove a crown Vic
Just because you know a few power numbers for a motor doesn't mean you know crap about how it will run in a car you've never seen it in before
Oh an I'd be willing to be mine or smaays v6 could spank that 300+ HP 3s of your wife on some good twistie roads cuz we haven't thrown off the balance of our celicas with all the extra weight the 3s adds. Powers not everything man....you'd think after owning a celica for 13years you would know that by now

Rant over

>

QUOTE (Smaay @ Apr 30, 2013 - 12:58 AM)

>Pressure you and I will go round and round and while you are correct an a great many things, you are ignorant with a few too. look ay my V6 swap dyno numbers. i made 220HP and 240tq. I have sourced a TRD supercharger or contemplated building my own M90 blower. that will put me well over the 300 range and ill still do it for less than a 3S-GTE swap.

ill say it again i drove erynns car with a 3S-GTE in it and i was IMPRESSED! it ran awesome! but she spent about 4000 for it. for what i have under the hood now its still under 2000.

this is going to be a long debate from now on. V6 Vs 3S-GTE

first, kurt, im not here for your respect, or anyone elses for that matter. so whether or not you "lost respect" for me whatever, i could care less.
did you guys miss my earlier post where i specificly said where a v6 swap IS a good idea in certain cercomstances?
im not saying there is no place for a v6 in a celica. quite the contrary, if your not looking for a turbo engine, or just really want the v6, go for it! its your car, do whatever the hell you want to it.
the whole v6 vs 3sgte debate is retarted as far as im concerned, i just cant stand the fanboy approch people have.
ohh i have a v6, so its the best thing since sliced bread!..bull****.

Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered

Smaay

#37

having driven all 3, 5S-FE with turbo, 3S-GTE and V6. i can say that all of them have their strengths. turboing the 5S-FE was simple and reliable. I had my issues though, i was using the AEM FIC and it was constantly fighting with the ECU. if my ECU was ODBI it might not have been that bad.

I love my V6 swap and im very happy i did it. It was a fun learning experience and its performance it top notch. Gas mileage isn't so good but that's because i drive the piss out of it.

2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac

1994Celica

#38

>

QUOTE (presure2 @ Apr 28, 2013 - 8:58 AM)

>>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ Apr 27, 2013 - 9:36 PM)

>>

QUOTE (presure2 @ Apr 27, 2013 - 11:41 AM)

>and saying the v6 swap is cheaper only works if you only are looking for ~200 or so hp.
99% of the owners on this site dont want to rebuild a motor before they swap it in, nevermind put parts of 2 motors together, like smaay did.
so, you swap in a v6, in most cases here either a 1mz or 3mz, end up with anywhere from 160-220whp, depending on the setup.
a stock 3rd gen makes ~240whp at stockish boost with just an intake and exhaust.
yea, it costs more up front, but will make 300whp all day @ 17-18psi, which is still within the factory parameters, super reliably.
to get that in a v6, your either swapping in a 2gr, which is just as or more expensive than a 3s swap, or turboing a 1m or 3vz or whatever, which ends up costing way more than a 3s swap, and you loose all the factory reliability.

trust me, i started with a stock 5s, turboed it to just under 200whp, got bored real quick, and kept upgrading it till i broke it @ over 300whp with my crappy tuning skills.
i've driven enough v6 camrys to know that a v6 (other than maybe the 2gr) in a celica WILL get boring quick, especially to a young kid thats lookin to have some fun with the local hondah guys.
just like the 5s, most of the v6's you guys are gonna be swapping are designed to be fuel effecient, and be reliable, not make big power and racing, lets be honest here.
my point is, by the time you swap in a v6, and make it fun, your way past the cost of a 3s swap, with none of the reliability.
short of the beams, or 4th gen 3sgte, parts are very easily attainable, and if your smart, even parts for those engines are a phone call and a couple weeks of waiting away.

to the OP, any swapped car is only as reliable as the work put into it.

The 1mz pulls me in with its parts avliableity, but the 3sgte pulls me with the amount of info on it and it seems easier to install.

Also you got 300hp out of a 5s? I'm impressed I didn't think it could get up to that much.

Dont worry about the install, thats not what should dictate your swap, the v6 isnt really a big deal vs a 3s.
unlike most of these guys, im not a fanboy, im a realist.
if your looking for the cheapest way to put a swap in your car that is faster than stock, and are not looking for a turbo, or looking to build big down the road, the v6 may be a good option for you.
the 1mz is cheap, available everywhere, and is reliable. same for the 3vz or whatever.

if you want a turbo setup, are looking to make alot more power than stock, and want a true performance engine that is designed and built for performance, than the 3sgte is the best option for you, with the 3rd gen being the easiest of all to swap. everything just fits, works together seamlessly, and drives just like stock, till you really get into it.
a/c, ps, everything is plug and play as far as accessories, and its super reliable, up to and over 300whp.

if you want n/a performance, want an engine that revs "honduh" style, and arnt looking for huge power, than check out the beams. its prolly the easiest of all swaps, and is a fun little motor.

any of those motors, provided you do your mantinence and take resonable care of them, will be very reliable.

i

I really like the beams engine but like the 3sgte it scares me with parts availability.

JDM Part King

rave2n

#39

>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 1, 2013 - 11:11 AM)

>I really like the beams engine but like the 3sgte it scares me with parts availability.

Parts are not hard to acquire.

The common failure parts are available locally or quick order from a local store.

For example, spark wires, cap and rotor. Can all be acquired at Autozone, or advance. They'll order it, and have it to you in 3 days. Just have to find the compatible Gen2 parts that were used in the MR2.

The odd items for full maint. such as oil pump, water pump, gaskets, and other odd tidbits can be acquired by a few dealers in the US, or by a bunch of parts dealers in the UK.

This post has been edited by rave2n: May 1, 2013 - 2:33 PM

czwalga

#40

Put a v8 in it and become a real man.

-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.

purplegt4

#41

>

QUOTE (kurt95gt @ Apr 29, 2013 - 11:17 PM)

>OK this is just getting sad
For starters I'm no fanboy.
I've said what I've had to say about the v6 swap an its just as good of a swap as a 3s if your not worried about only power.

Pressure2: I had a lot of respect for you,your celicas, an what you have brought to this site. But I have lost a lot of respect for you after reading what basically been trash talking from you to box an anyone that has v6 in there post
Say what you want but the 2mz in a celica is one hell of a motor
Mine isn't even at 100% yet an I take out b swap Hondas like there a d series still.
Saying you know how a v6 will be in a celica because you drove a v6 camry is like saying oh I know what a v8 mustsng will feel Cruz I drove a crown Vic
Just because you know a few power numbers for a motor doesn't mean you know crap about how it will run in a car you've never seen it in before
Oh an I'd be willing to be mine or smaays v6 could spank that 300+ HP 3s of your wife on some good twistie roads cuz we haven't thrown off the balance of our celicas with all the extra weight the 3s adds. Powers not everything man....you'd think after owning a celica for 13years you would know that by now

Rant over

I'd be willing to race a v6 celica on a 'twistie' track.

1994Celica

#42

>

QUOTE (czwalga @ May 1, 2013 - 4:06 PM)

>Put a v8 in it and become a real man.

Turbo ls1 Celica? I like the sound of that.

JDM Part King

1994Celica

#43

>

QUOTE (rave2n @ May 1, 2013 - 2:31 PM)

>>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 1, 2013 - 11:11 AM)

>I really like the beams engine but like the 3sgte it scares me with parts availability.

Parts are not hard to acquire.

The common failure parts are available locally or quick order from a local store.

For example, spark wires, cap and rotor. Can all be acquired at Autozone, or advance. They'll order it, and have it to you in 3 days. Just have to find the compatible Gen2 parts that were used in the MR2.

The odd items for full maint. such as oil pump, water pump, gaskets, and other odd tidbits can be acquired by a few dealers in the US, or by a bunch of parts dealers in the UK.

Hmm if that's the case then I might want to go with the beams.

JDM Part King

czwalga

#44

>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 3, 2013 - 11:46 AM)

>>

QUOTE (rave2n @ May 1, 2013 - 2:31 PM)

>>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 1, 2013 - 11:11 AM)

>I really like the beams engine but like the 3sgte it scares me with parts availability.

Parts are not hard to acquire.

The common failure parts are available locally or quick order from a local store.

For example, spark wires, cap and rotor. Can all be acquired at Autozone, or advance. They'll order it, and have it to you in 3 days. Just have to find the compatible Gen2 parts that were used in the MR2.

The odd items for full maint. such as oil pump, water pump, gaskets, and other odd tidbits can be acquired by a few dealers in the US, or by a bunch of parts dealers in the UK.

Hmm if that's the case then I might want to go with the beams.

Why beams? Probably the hardest engine to acquire parts for. A lot easier to find parts for a 3sgte.

-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.

1994Celica

#45

>

QUOTE (czwalga @ May 3, 2013 - 11:44 AM)

>>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 3, 2013 - 11:46 AM)

>>

QUOTE (rave2n @ May 1, 2013 - 2:31 PM)

>>

QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 1, 2013 - 11:11 AM)

>I really like the beams engine but like the 3sgte it scares me with parts availability.

Parts are not hard to acquire.

The common failure parts are available locally or quick order from a local store.

For example, spark wires, cap and rotor. Can all be acquired at Autozone, or advance. They'll order it, and have it to you in 3 days. Just have to find the compatible Gen2 parts that were used in the MR2.

The odd items for full maint. such as oil pump, water pump, gaskets, and other odd tidbits can be acquired by a few dealers in the US, or by a bunch of parts dealers in the UK.

Hmm if that's the case then I might want to go with the beams.

Why beams? Probably the hardest engine to acquire parts for. A lot easier to find parts for a 3sgte.

I just like the engine. The output is good but not too much. There's no turbo to worry about. I'm stuck between the beams and the 1mz.

JDM Part King

mkernz22

#46

I'm going with the 1mz because I got it for free.....well actually it was a payment for swapping my buddy's camry to a standard since the '96's never came in standard.
and I got the auto transmission so I can pull the solenoids out of it as well.....and a bunch of wiring, actually all the wiring. Anyway, back on topic. I've been open to swapping in any of the engines. I've ridden in Dustin's 3s before he parted it, I drove his beams (which vvti was super addicting lol) and I've driven my buddies V6 camry before and after I finished his swap.

Let me tell you guys, it is a HUGE difference between driving a camry that has an auto trans compared to a manual. This is the same car, just before and after I swapped it. It was a big noticeable difference too. And it was the e153 out of a 1997 camry that was swapped in, but I'm going to guess it will seem a hellofalot faster in a celica with the s54.

1994Celica

#47

>

QUOTE (mkernz22 @ May 3, 2013 - 12:09 PM)

>I'm going with the 1mz because I got it for free.....well actually it was a payment for swapping my buddy's camry to a standard since the '96's never came in standard.
and I got the auto transmission so I can pull the solenoids out of it as well.....and a bunch of wiring, actually all the wiring. Anyway, back on topic. I've been open to swapping in any of the engines. I've ridden in Dustin's 3s before he parted it, I drove his beams (which vvti was super addicting lol) and I've driven my buddies V6 camry before and after I finished his swap.

Let me tell you guys, it is a HUGE difference between driving a camry that has an auto trans compared to a manual. This is the same car, just before and after I swapped it. It was a big noticeable difference too. And it was the e153 out of a 1997 camry that was swapped in, but I'm going to guess it will seem a hellofalot faster in a celica with the s54.

The v6 swap really sounds appealing. It's reliable, produces a good amount of hp and has better parts availability. The fact that it hasn't been done as much makes me nervous since there's less info on it. The beams swap sounds like it would be much easier since it was in celicas but like the 3sgte the parts scare me. I need to decide between having an easier swap but harder to find parts or a harder to do swap with greater parts avliableity.

JDM Part King

richee3

#48

Trust me, parts for the BEAMS aren't bad. Granted, you can't walk into Autozone and get a timing belt, but any time anyone claims "you can't get parts here, parts are impossible to find" they're basing that off of a post someone else made, which was based on another post, then another post, etc. with no actual research. The downfall of the BEAMS is the cost, which is more than a V6 swap, and the fact that you're stuck with only 200 hp. The plus side is its just as reliable as a 5S, very fun to drive, and is as drop-in as a swap comes.

There are smarter choices to swap, but the BEAMS is an easy swap with decent power.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.

1994Celica

#49

>

QUOTE (richee3 @ May 3, 2013 - 6:06 PM)

>Trust me, parts for the BEAMS aren't bad. Granted, you can't walk into Autozone and get a timing belt, but any time anyone claims "you can't get parts here, parts are impossible to find" they're basing that off of a post someone else made, which was based on another post, then another post, etc. with no actual research. The downfall of the BEAMS is the cost, which is more than a V6 swap, and the fact that you're stuck with only 200 hp. The plus side is its just as reliable as a 5S, very fun to drive, and is as drop-in as a swap comes.

There are smarter choices to swap, but the BEAMS is an easy swap with decent power.

200 should be pretty good though. I guess I need to research more into each engine and decide which I like best.

JDM Part King

richee3

#50

200 is great for a Celica. The problem is that it comes at like 7,000 rpm. That's great if your driving style allows for very high revving all the time. Personally, I want my power at a more reasonable, usable rpm so I'm yanking my BEAMS out in lieu of a 3S-GTE. All three engines are great choices, each has its pros and cons. It all comes down to budget, driving style, and personal preference.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.

czwalga

#51

>

QUOTE (richee3 @ May 3, 2013 - 8:17 PM)

>200 is great for a Celica. The problem is that it comes at like 7,000 rpm. That's great if your driving style allows for very high revving all the time. Personally, I want my power at a more reasonable, usable rpm so I'm yanking my BEAMS out in lieu of a 3S-GTE. All three engines are great choices, each has its pros and cons. It all comes down to budget, driving style, and personal preference.

You going to sell your beams? For the right price I may be interested in upgrading over just the regular 3sge.

-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.

1994Celica

#52

What about turboing the 5s? Could I get 200hp out of it?

JDM Part King

travisxcore

#53

If youre extremely careful and you do it right the first time you sure can. From what I've seen the 5sfte can be very unforgiving if corners are cut, but other then that its a solid build and its numbers are awesome.

I believe this thread will help you see whats involved.

Honestly though, if youre thinking 5sfte, I'd suggest maybe the 5sgte, best of both worlds.

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