Just to interrupt on your buddy Josh, Kwanza. He's the nicest business man I've ever dealt with. He (well Chico) shipped me the wrong tranny by mistake 2 months ago and I only got to messing with it recently and noticed woops, no LSD, so I contacted him and he had absolutely no problem in swapping it ASAP with no charge to me. Just thought I'd share that in case anyone is looking to deal with them since I noticed your kinda promoting him too lol.

Heres a page of Chris Dittrick's site on a history of 3S-GTE's blowing up:
How To Blow Up Your 3SGTE

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 9, 2004 - 8:34 AM

I can't remember who said that they use to soley believe in the 3sgte (becaues i'm on the forth page), haha, but kwanza may remember my post, i've always not blieved in the 3s-gte. I plan on the 5s-fze, and somewhere in the plan, always waving goodbye to swapped 3's. I've always believe in my 5s

Uh...3SGTE isnt a belief or idea you can believe in. The 3sgte is just plainly capable of more power at safer conditions. The 5sfe has plenty of power capability but IDK but it cannot take the abuse I think alot of ppl are going to put it through. The 5sfe was not meant for boost so boosting it requires TLC. The 3s can sustain a little bit of a beating. IMO some people dont accept the responsibility of having a turbo engine and thus dont kno how to properly treat one.

-Supersprynt+Nov 9, 2004 - 8:21 AM

i dont think any sort of modification will have the engine or swap as reliable as stock, thats just the price you pay for doing this kinda stuff.

thought some of youmight like this if you havent seen it already.

http://www.trdnw.com/cat_turbo_reviews_1.html

gotta read this is for the 5sfe

Initial dyno tests showed the 7psi kit on the Camry produced 162.4 hp at the wheels, a gain over stock of about 60 hp. The first quarter mile run was 14.93 sec @ 93.36 mph. Later upgrades produced quarter mile times in the 14.25 range @ 99.98 mph.
The upgraded turbo system now in the Camry produced 253.7 hp at the wheels and we have yet to run a quarter mile with the prototype since the additional injector was added and the head was flowed.

Figuring a 20% loss at the wheels the 7psi kit should produce about 203hp at the crank and the prototype Camry is probably producing slightly in excess of 300 crank hp.

http://www.trdnw.com/cat_turbo_performance.html

I wonder if it has an air conditioner, or interior for that matter...

-FallenHero+Nov 9, 2004 - 2:50 PM

I've lost a lot of respect for you NEVERSTOP. You need to control the way you conduct yourself. It may not matter what some people on some forum might think, but I hope you don't blow up like this in real life. You didn't do a very good job of making a point you, you just made an ass outta urself.

I don't understand how NEVERSTOP made an ass out of himself. How else would he handle being accused of not doing the things he has done to his car? Being only 15 minutes away from him, and the owner of his 3SGTE, I can understand how he would be upset. He has every reason to defend his name and his work done to his 94 project.

He's got pictures to back up his ownership of the 3SGTE before I bought it. Hell, if you look past his 99 in his signature of his replies, thats a guy named Mike that you see working on the 94.

everyone is slingen mud now.

im sorry..... i jsut posted up some numbers >> yes the 3sgte is better. duhhhhh. but im poor.

It's not that you replied, thats fine, it's the way you did.

i wanan swap in a supra engine... that will pwn both those engines >>.

neither engine is better. its all about what you want to gain, and ur funding.

5sfte is way better than 3sgte in certain aspects. and in other aspects the 3sgte is way better. pls stop this bickering.

dont make me swap a supra engine in. ill have to whoop all u guys.(in a race)




o yeah and neverstop... ur car kicks ass >>

hold on apes, what kinda race

NEVERSTOP, everyone has a different way of looking at things. you may read something i say, and take it one way, and someone else will read it and take it another way. its just the way the internet is.

my personal OPINION (not fact, just the way i take the things u type) of you has alway been of a guy who dosnt tell the truth about his past car projects, but you never see me try to disrespect you about it or try to pick a fight. i agree with SlowCelica94 that your comments were out of line. this is after all a msg board, everyone can state their opinion (about the topic posted) and debate it till the cows come home. so, dont give me crap for trying to debate my side of this topic.


Yota, if you scroll up and read all the posts again, youll see that i only said something about his past projects as a reply to the attacks he made at me in the previous thread. i wasnt the one who started the presonal attacks.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 9, 2004 - 11:44 PM

I think the 5sfe is a great start but if your like me and craving the real power you got the wrong engine to come out and play!Like you guys are saying changing the internals the tuning and dyno the car and see were you can improve the curvs, the truth of it is you are using a mk3 supra turbo thats good at the end of the gears (builds boost late)the 3sgte ct26 kicks in very early in the power band and rpms.So you have now figured what you did wrong just by changing the turbo!Now it spools up quicker and the tourque down low will break your enternals if you dont build the motor from the inside out.Now my question is why go with a turbo on your 5sfe motor if you dont want to be able to run some serious boost ?Kwanza 10 psi is equivalent to 100 hp in theory!A 3sgte is that already on motor, more than a stock 5sfe!If I want to add 100hp i crank up my boost up 10 psi and its still more power and its safer.Now you guy talk about compression the 5sfe is a higher than the 3sgte so you get a new intake manifold with longer runners and there you have raised the compression and the motor is still faster and more safe.I think its cool that someone is doing a NA and turboing it but as far as I concerned I want huge power from my car.And I go all out or why do we even bother spending money on our cars.GO BIG OR GO HOME!!

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Nov 10, 2004 - 12:56 AM

So the arugment is sorta like this. 3s is better. But for the money you spend swapping in a 3s, you could build a better 5s. Ok. Prove it. No, don't actually do it, i wanna know now. Price it out. You prove to me there's even strong enough aftermarket support for the 5S to do it.

NEVERSTOP, do you have any pics of ur awd conversion? maybe a write up? Or could you just tell us in a quick nutshell how you did it. I'm not asking for some DIY guide, just enough to sway some opinions as to if you really did it.

Also, as far as what Lagos has brough to this site, he's brought more then you list. Even if he can just deliver intelligent answers to technical questions, it's pretty helpful. When it comes to anything mechnical on this site, I only take Lagos's, Kwanza's and superspirt's words seriously. Sometimes your's but you just give me a shady vibe

meh.... johns addicted to speed anyway... i give it a year and a half and he has a 3S in his car anyway, cuz he maxed out the gains out of his 5S....

well from what i hear..you can get the basic basic for the turbo kit for about 800..then add in the bov..turbo timer..boost controller..fuel management..intercooler etc. itll run about 2000 theres the basic 5sfte right there..should run safely at about 8-10 psi..get internals about 3gs..and then some goodies and ur still under the swap cost.

185 clip - 2000-2500 - yep thats correct
MRT2 Tranny - 800-1000 - i, and many others are using the stock GT tranny
motor mounts - Appox 200 - u dont need them if u have a GT
Halfshafts camary/mr2 - 200-300 - dont need unless using mr2 tranny
FMIC - 200-400 = yep thats about what the go for
Piping w/couplers - 200-300- correct
BOV - 50-150 - dont really need it, but its a fun toy
Misc - 500 - tools engine lift etc...


$2950-3850 - this is t he ballpark figure i spent on my swap

sell awd tranny from clip -200
sell 5sfe..depending on condition -300-900
sell alltrac hood... 300-450
sell misc alltrac parts 100-300

after selling all that stuff off the price starts to come down.

the Baic 5sfte kit is not a good idea imho.

5sfte mild build up... is the better way to go if you are doing a 5sfte. its very important to control timing with the btm. this is my theory as to why itchyb still has a running engine.

what ever choice people decide, you have to consider the goal: A Turbo 6th gen. a swap will give u that, and a 5sfTe will too. choose not based on cost, but on what you think will give you the best, most realiable setup. if you feel a 5sfTe will do that....great, but do it right and dont expect a 750$ invstment to be realiable. if you go for the swap, spend the extra bucks to fully tune up your engine, and all that stuff.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 10, 2004 - 8:14 PM

come on though if we didnt base things on price we'd all live in huge houses and drive bmw's... money owns me.

Just FYI, the 3sgte can in fact handle more than 1bar reliably (as reliably as anything is with a turboed car anyway). I run 15 daily, two other guys in town run 17 daily, it's not that uncommon. The limitation is in fact the turbo itself, CT26 seals just don't like to go higher boost, the turbo is not efficient at those levels, pushing a lot of hot air for less good. When you have an a different turbo that's more efficient and can safely run the boost like Hyde, that's not as much of an issue. For the cracking pistons, with the stock turbo it's hard to exhaust the stock fuel system, at 17 psi it's probably got the injectors working at a high duty cycle, but unless they fail, lean isn't likely. There are a couple of easy precautions, namely sticking an egt probe in exhaust manifold runner 3 which, as we all well know, is the cylinder that will go lean first due to the 3s intake manifold design. You have that backup and it's easy enough to back off as soon as EGTs get a bit higher than they should.

To put it simply, the 3s is a pre-engineered Turbo setup. No guessing if you leave it basically stock. The 5s is EXTREMELY well engineered in its own right, but not as a turbo motor. That doesn't mean it can't be turbo'ed well, it just means you have a lot of things to take care of that you don't with the 3s. There's no better or more cost effective way IMO, they both are expensive to do RIGHT and they both can yield extremely good results. I've owned 2 MR2s (a 93 with 190k miles, a 91 with 173k miles which I have still) and an Alltrac (90 with 123k miles) as well as a 94 Celi GT which has had internals built in preparation to a 5sfte project I haven't got around to completing yet. I can tell you I sunk a lot of money into every single car. Each car had its own quirks, and building up the 5sfe wasn't as cheap as it should of been, quite simply because things can happen that you can't predict, as happened with me. By the same token, another guy who is trying to swap got a bad motor to start with and is having problems. Whichever way you choose, choose with knowlege, not with what's going to be "cheaper" or "better", choose what's going to be what you wanted out of the car, each setup has strengths and weaknesses. I think it's pretty poor form that some of you have yet again devolved the discussion into a which is better argument. It's pointless and counterproductive, try laying the information out objectively without tossing in opinions to try to steer people one way or another. If someone wants to 5sfte, give them the information or just stay out of it. If they want to swap, again, info or hush. IMO that's the only reasonable way to approach it.

BTW, those dyno numbers look great, I do recommend an EGT probe in runner 3 and a good gauge to keep an eye on things >>