RWD Celica - 6G Celicas Forums

playr158

#61

i'll learn from this i really am interested in his swap i think yes it is IMPRACTICAL for him to do
but worth it? HELL YES THIS IS WORTH IT

i think you should defenitly consider using the 20x rear supension set up since it was designed for the celica and will relieve you of many further complications and fabrications to get the rear diff to work cause it would involve a few less changes....for the drive shaft defenitly custom for the hell of it go C/F lol that would be hotness..
exhaust hmm side exit would solve it but make good noise
a/c yea 99% sure you'll have to ditch
steering? hard issue to resolve?

who said 2jz?

good luck with this man!

Jeremy1210

#62

QUOTE

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.

Anyway, I hope that you do this. Don't let anyone on this site turn you away from what you want to do. Kwanza has good questions and is challenging you to see the difficulties in doing this so when you decide to do it, you will have all the questions answered.

CheesyLobster

#63

-Jeremy1210+Mar 17, 2005 - 7:51 AM

QUOTE(Jeremy1210 @ Mar 17, 2005 - 7:51 AM)

QUOTE

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.

Anyway, I hope that you do this. Don't let anyone on this site turn you away from what you want to do. Kwanza has good questions and is challenging you to see the difficulties in doing this so when you decide to do it, you will have all the questions answered.
[right][snapback]258395[/snapback][/right]

Please, neither of you be negative. There is criticism, and there is malice. Don't confuse the two.

maikl

#64

well we have a rwd subaru sti here in cyprus.... but i gues it's easyer to make a 4wd-rwd than an fwd...... good luck with it, atleast have fun in the prosses and don't get nervous, stressed etc..... enjoy the project;)

This post has been edited by maikl: Mar 17, 2005 - 3:29 AM

darksecret

#65

-Exile04+Mar 16, 2005 - 7:26 PM

QUOTE(Exile04 @ Mar 16, 2005 - 7:26 PM)

hi i just want to wish u luck and a few questions,

Would it be hard to go awd? and do just want RWD?
Also would it be easier to make a custom driveshaft?
Or use a olfer celicas RWD setup?

Sry if this questions or stupuid or already answerd
[right][snapback]258138[/snapback][/right]

It would be more work to go AWD and I also want to have the only RWD 6th gen. that I know of. Also AWD is good but the only main benefit of AWD is traction and a well set up RWD can prove to be great at traction also. This link will give some reasons why AWD isn't as good as people think. www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=154607117&f=2686087201&m=8316093631

The driveshaft will probably need to be fab'd it determines what the measurements are from the transmission U-Joint to the diff. U-Joint.

It would be just as hard to fit an older Celica's drivetrain, easier to find the parts but still the same work. If im doing the same work then I can just source one of the best drivetrains in the world. Basically, why use a drivetrain from a 20 year old car that would probably fail after a few months of pounding or one that is a few years old that loves abuse.

darksecret

#66

-SlowCelica94+Mar 16, 2005 - 9:16 PM

QUOTE(SlowCelica94 @ Mar 16, 2005 - 9:16 PM)

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?
[right][snapback]258193[/snapback][/right]

You forgot to add a pinch of salt to taste.

darksecret

#67

-playr158+Mar 16, 2005 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE(playr158 @ Mar 16, 2005 - 11:13 PM)

i'll learn from this i really am interested in his swap i think yes it is IMPRACTICAL for him to do
but worth it? HELL YES THIS IS WORTH IT

i think you should defenitly consider using the 20x rear supension set up since it was designed for the celica and will relieve you of many further complications and fabrications to get the rear diff to work cause it would involve a few less changes....for the drive shaft defenitly custom for the hell of it go C/F lol that would be hotness..
exhaust hmm side exit would solve it but make good noise
a/c yea 99% sure you'll have to ditch
steering? hard issue to resolve?

who said 2jz?

good luck with this man!
[right][snapback]258226[/snapback][/right]

Steering isn't all that bad. If you take apart a steering system then you have a lot of metal shafts. The steering system sits next to the firewall but it doesn't mean it has to stay there. When I help on drag cars we sometimes opt for a Mustang II steering system and relocate everything.

SlowCelica94

#68

-Jeremy1210+Mar 17, 2005 - 7:51 AM

QUOTE(Jeremy1210 @ Mar 17, 2005 - 7:51 AM)

QUOTE

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.
[right][snapback]258395[/snapback][/right]

This is true.

NASA/SCCA RX-7....currently under the knife92 Civic hatch B16 - Sold10th anniv RX-7 - RIPThe Slow Celica - Sold...and then crushed crushed due to street racing.Quote from Seinfeild: George's Boss reading a magazine: "People magazine's most beautiful people. Oh and a Celica...nothin wrong with that!"

shid

#69

Linking to a supra "FAQ" about why RWD is better than AWD isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.

darksecret

#70

-shid+Mar 17, 2005 - 1:16 PM

QUOTE(shid @ Mar 17, 2005 - 1:16 PM)

Linking to a supra "FAQ" about why RWD is better than AWD isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.
[right][snapback]258512[/snapback][/right]

Doesn't matter if it came from Car and Driver, it's just plain common sence.
AWD is good, but it's heavy and it does have higher cost due to more parts.
I would love to have an AWD car but as they said in the forum it's performance is exaggerated by video games.

shid

#71

its not just plain "common sense". the AWD and RWD platforms have plusses and minuses which I am not qualified to discuss- I am qualified enough to know that a bunch of supra owners are a little biased and defensive about their cars (drag queens called by some) so a faq from a supra site IS NOT unbiased, it can NOT be a primary resource for AWD vs RWD- thats common sense

darksecret

#72

-shid+Mar 17, 2005 - 6:25 PM

QUOTE(shid @ Mar 17, 2005 - 6:25 PM)

its not just plain "common sense". the AWD and RWD platforms have plusses and minuses which I am not qualified to discuss- I am qualified enough to know that a bunch of supra owners are a little biased and defensive about their cars (drag queens called by some) so a faq from a supra site IS NOT unbiased, it can NOT be a primary resource for AWD vs RWD- thats common sense
[right][snapback]258668[/snapback][/right]

If you read the forum from i-supra then you would see that they aren't bashing AWD, they are describing the negatives to having AWD, believe me if AWD was so bad then why would they have put a Skyline drivetrain and RB26 a Supra. I chose the RWD set-up for the Celica because that is what the FWD models should have been and most of the people at this forum can agree. I don't like FWD but I love this car enough to live with it for now. I was raised around RWD sports cars and the Celica even has a RWD feel, until you dump the clutch. I like the traction of the AWD but when I can take a GMC Sierra and run with a WRX that little bit off the line doesn't mean much when your car struggles through 3rd, point is as far as traction goes AWD has it, but it's cheaper to buy a set of DOT slicks for a RWD Celica than to spend the money on a limited drivetrain. To prove my point ask the DSM guys which drivetrain can handle more power for less money and the GS-T will out do a GSX anyday.

Edit: This is my final post on AWD vs. RWD since this is a tech thread about a RWD conversion.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 17, 2005 - 6:18 PM

playr158

#73

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?

FallenHero

#74

custom drive shaft can be had rather easily... A minitrucker friend of mine told me one for his was under $200 (I think..)

Any moron can make the rear end work. i'd personally buy something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...ssPageName=WDVW

that is about the right width and weld or mount that jule any way i could. That way, it's in there and you don't have to worry about it.

Rear end=no problem as long as there is enough brcing back there to hold it. I personally have never been under the car to get a good look, but I am sure it's there.

As long as you have a hatch i think the well for the drive shaft will be there. After all, I doubt the floorpan for the GT4 is that remarkable. yes, I am sure it's different, but a plasma torch and a welder can fix that up quite easily.

The engine however... mounting will be no problem. Talking the accessories into working... good luck. My advice: use the same steering rack and accessories off of the car you lift the engine from. If you don't, you will have no chance of talking the power steering into working. The ac will have to be plumed, along with Everything else. Plus you will have to figure out a way to get a bigger radiator in the nose of the beast.

Good luck mang, I'll believe it when I see it... just like Neverstop's and Igotta5sfeturbo's GT-4 conversions. Just like the supra conversion down in florida, just like all the other talk I hear.

Not bashing you, just telling the truth. Anything I can do to help, and any info I can give you, I will.

darksecret

#75

-playr158+Mar 17, 2005 - 9:16 PM

QUOTE(playr158 @ Mar 17, 2005 - 9:16 PM)

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?
[right][snapback]258780[/snapback][/right]

I wont spend the extra cash to make a C/F driveshaft since they aren't worth it. I will probably just get a standard steel or aluminum cast. I got some buddies at a driveline shop in the next town that can do it.

darksecret

#76

Most people think that the rear end has to be welded to the chassis, but that isn't true. The rear is set in with the suspension system, if you unbolt the rear suspension assembly you will find the rear end will just drop out. If the rear was mounted to the chassis then every bump you hit will jar the rear end and it will be the worst ride of your life. Take for example a full size truck since it has the easiest to view suspension (and normally the easiest to set up) the rear axle is mounted to the leaf springs.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 18, 2005 - 10:38 AM

AndyST4

#77

The easiest way to make a rear wheel drive celica is to use the whole st205 drive train and tranny. The rear end bolts up, but the floor pan needs to be modified and the gas tank needs to relocated or go to a fuel cell like you have said. And there is a way to convert the tranny to just rear wheel drive, I don't know exactly how it is done I just know that on some of the eclipse drag cars they use the gsx awd tranny and convert it to just rwd

darksecret

#78

-AndyST4+Mar 19, 2005 - 1:56 AM

QUOTE(AndyST4 @ Mar 19, 2005 - 1:56 AM)

The easiest way to make a rear wheel drive celica is to use the whole st205 drive train and tranny. The rear end bolts up, but the floor pan needs to be modified and the gas tank needs to relocated or go to a fuel cell like you have said. And there is a way to convert the tranny to just rear wheel drive, I don't know exactly how it is done I just know that on some of the eclipse drag cars they use the gsx awd tranny and convert it to just rwd
[right][snapback]259346[/snapback][/right]

It could work but the 205 transmission can't handle the power the Getrag can. A fuel cell is going to be used regardless. Plus the Getrag is a RWD transmission anyway and its been mated to the 3S already so I know the system can work.

AndyST4

#79

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up

Kwanza26

#80

-AndyST4+Mar 20, 2005 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE(AndyST4 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 12:09 AM)

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up
[right][snapback]259603[/snapback][/right]

If you don't know how it's done... don't bring it up. Converting an AWD tranny to RWD is not easy and requires a completely custom differential when dealing with transaxles. Might as well build a new tranny while you're at it.

Also... don't even say "bolt up". Bolting up is EASY... getting things to work is HARD. Sh!t... a 3SGTE "bolts up"... but only a VERY small percentage of Celica owners have done the swap. The 4AGE 20V "bolts up"... but only 2 people in the United States has ever swapped the motor into a 6th gen Celica.

I say again... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't bother trying to pass advice from wherever you heard it or read it from.

"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

AndyST4

#81

-Kwanza26+Mar 20, 2005 - 2:17 AM

QUOTE(Kwanza26 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 2:17 AM)

-AndyST4+Mar 20, 2005 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE(AndyST4 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 12:09 AM)

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up
[right][snapback]259603[/snapback][/right]

If you don't know how it's done... don't bring it up. Converting an AWD tranny to RWD is not easy and requires a completely custom differential when dealing with transaxles. Might as well build a new tranny while you're at it.

Also... don't even say "bolt up". Bolting up is EASY... getting things to work is HARD. Sh!t... a 3SGTE "bolts up"... but only a VERY small percentage of Celica owners have done the swap. The 4AGE 20V "bolts up"... but only 2 people in the United States has ever swapped the motor into a 6th gen Celica.

I say again... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't bother trying to pass advice from wherever you heard it or read it from.
[right][snapback]259716[/snapback][/right]

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you. If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them. I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy. I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while. Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?

97sccelica

#82

QUOTE

And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?

tubular frame built around a RWD setup 3sgte(from an altezza, it would be a PITA to convert a horizontaly mounte 3sgte into a RWD 3sgte) with fiberglass/CF body panels making the car look like a 6gc.

thats definately the easiest way, certainly not the cheapest, but never-the-less the easiest.

imo, the only way to go about the rear end/rear suspension is to get an ST205 rear clip

any other setup would require way more custom work, and just plain my not be possible with out rebuilding the whole rear end of the car(like those guys with RWD hondas did)

as for the AWD vs RWD, i like being able to use every drop of power i have at any time, go ahead and list off every advantage that RWD has over AWD, then list the disadvantages of AWD and i will still prefer AWD. i have friends with high power RWD cars, and they cant use any of there power until they are at speeds where i like to end races(~90mph)

thats why i would rather do an st205 conversion than rwd. yea, there may be more parts, but atleast they arent custom parts(or as many custom parts as a rwd conversion) the handling characteristics will be more predictable too. who knows what a RWD converted celica will want to do when you take it on the road. the suspension would need a lot, and i mean a lot, of tuning.

and building a high power muscle car is nothing at all like this project. every single part you can think of is made for a chevelle, in either bolt on or weld on configuration

this project is re-engineering the car entirely, not spending money and getting parts with instructions. be prepared to spend a lot of time, money, thought, and hard work into this project. and count on not driving your car for a few years.

1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition@gt4.wrc on Instagram

Kwanza26

#83

-AndyST4+Mar 20, 2005 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE(AndyST4 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 10:17 AM)

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you. If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them. I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy. I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while. Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?
[right][snapback]259757[/snapback][/right]

I keep reading them because I'm curious about experimental ideas... but there's a fine line between experimental ideas, and pure dreaming. Good for you that you have an ST205 3sgte... but in my mind... you've still not yet shown your worth in terms of mechanical knowledge.

Here's some info for you. The AWD tranny is a transaxle design, meaning there is one specially designed AWD diff on a transversely designed tranny. This diff distributes power to both from wheels, and to a driveshaft. To make this ONLY distribute power to the driveshaft... you'll have to build a custom differential. If you know ANYTHING about transaxle differentials, they are very expensive to work on, let alone have a custom built one... because there isn't a real way to lock up that diff. It's harder than installing a getrag 6 speed... which requires some body/chassis work, but I personally think the getrag is overkill anyway.

Now... as for me being negative... if you care to notice, everyone with good mechanical ability and respect around this community has been reluctant say this is an easy "bolt on" job. You can call it negative... I'll call it realistic. The kind of realism that can only be gained from experience with cars. Like I said before... there is no easy way with these projects. Anything mentioned here, including my information, is merely speculation because this sort of project has NEVER been done. In other words, our opinions are pretty much worthless to a really serious person.

In all honesty now... if anyone were to complete a project like this, I'd least expect it to be done by a relatively new person. I know if I were to do anything like this, I'd just one day post pictures once everything is said and done.

"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"1995 AT200 Celica ST:stocked out daily driver...1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5:silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...1991 SW2x MR2 n/a:bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

playr158

#84

-darksecret+Mar 18, 2005 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE(darksecret @ Mar 18, 2005 - 10:27 AM)

-playr158+Mar 17, 2005 - 9:16 PM

QUOTE(playr158 @ Mar 17, 2005 - 9:16 PM)

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?
[right][snapback]258780[/snapback][/right]

I wont spend the extra cash to make a C/F driveshaft since they aren't worth it. I will probably just get a standard steel or aluminum cast. I got some buddies at a driveline shop in the next town that can do it.
[right][snapback]258980[/snapback][/right]

aite cool good connections you have i forget lol

as for tranny why don't you stick to the ALTEZZA tranny?
its RWD and can handle the power and will require less crap then the getrag>?

darksecret

#85

I haven't told anyone about the power levels I am planning to run at. Im not going to do all this work for a mere 200 or 300 horsepower. Im wanting to push the limits of the 3S and work for 800hp and at least 700 lbs.ft.
I don't have a connection to anyone with a MKIV Supra but my uncle (the welder) has owned both the MKII and MKIII Supras and knows a little about them. He looked at a few pics of the Getrag went under the car and shown me how much room we had to work with. I opened up the center dash and noticed some wiring, the amp, and another box next to the firewall that would need to be moved, other than that there is nothing in the way. He said he could have the new plate welded in about an hour. The welding isn't bad just a tight space to work with, but we have all the tools and experirence to do it.

playr158

#86

nice!

keep us updated

AndyST4

#87

-Kwanza26+Mar 20, 2005 - 2:21 PM

QUOTE(Kwanza26 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 2:21 PM)

-AndyST4+Mar 20, 2005 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE(AndyST4 @ Mar 20, 2005 - 10:17 AM)

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you. If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them. I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy. I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while. Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?
[right][snapback]259757[/snapback][/right]

I keep reading them because I'm curious about experimental ideas... but there's a fine line between experimental ideas, and pure dreaming. Good for you that you have an ST205 3sgte... but in my mind... you've still not yet shown your worth in terms of mechanical knowledge.

Here's some info for you. The AWD tranny is a transaxle design, meaning there is one specially designed AWD diff on a transversely designed tranny. This diff distributes power to both from wheels, and to a driveshaft. To make this ONLY distribute power to the driveshaft... you'll have to build a custom differential. If you know ANYTHING about transaxle differentials, they are very expensive to work on, let alone have a custom built one... because there isn't a real way to lock up that diff. It's harder than installing a getrag 6 speed... which requires some body/chassis work, but I personally think the getrag is overkill anyway.

Now... as for me being negative... if you care to notice, everyone with good mechanical ability and respect around this community has been reluctant say this is an easy "bolt on" job. You can call it negative... I'll call it realistic. The kind of realism that can only be gained from experience with cars. Like I said before... there is no easy way with these projects. Anything mentioned here, including my information, is merely speculation because this sort of project has NEVER been done. In other words, our opinions are pretty much worthless to a really serious person.

In all honesty now... if anyone were to complete a project like this, I'd least expect it to be done by a relatively new person. I know if I were to do anything like this, I'd just one day post pictures once everything is said and done.
[right][snapback]259828[/snapback][/right]

Converting a awd transaxle to rwd isn't dreaming a lot of people have done it, it's not something i just came up with out of nowhere. I just like the idea of using all parts that where meant to be on the car, but I never said anything about this being a bolt on job. I'm very aware that there would be a lot of customization and problem solving. What I meant was that a lot of the main components would bolt on with out major modification. If I thought this was an easy bolt on job I would have done it a long time ago. Dreaming to me is the idea of building a tubular frame around the rear end and get c/f body panels molded to look like a celica. Reality is finding a jdm gt4, having it cut in half, bring the front on one boat and the back on another, and transfering the gt4 drivetrain to my car. And if dragging the transaxle to a shop that could convert it is expensive so be it. At least I would have a car which was almost completely engineered by toyota. In the long run I think it would be worth it, even I f it did cost a little more.

darksecret

#88

Ok for everyone fighting about RWD vs. AWD I have a new thread in the General Discussion forum. I am doing RWD and nothing is going to change that. Plus why use the GT-Four transmission when by the time I build to the power level I want and get the thing set for RWD and all the parts I will need to make it work I will have spent enough to buy the Getrag with all the parts I need and still have more room for higher power. Yeah it's big but it's worth it. Besides if I can stuff the Getrag in the Celica I can say im great at stuffing big things in tight places and I don't have to slap XXX on the video when it's all over lol.

sphinx

#89

-OrbitalGT95+Mar 15, 2005 - 4:00 PM

QUOTE(OrbitalGT95 @ Mar 15, 2005 - 4:00 PM)

All i have to say is that you better drift that f#$ker if you make it work...a drifting celica would be the hottest thing next to the olsen twins pre drug abuse days >

>
[right][snapback]257787[/snapback][/right]

I just started reading this thread, and i'm still not done, but this is the funiest !@#$ i've heard in a while. That just made my day.

Thanks

This post has been edited by sphinx: Mar 21, 2005 - 7:26 PM

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