Well, the wednesday here for me was the Dyno day... The first day i got Edos car, after i drove her home, i was like holy damn..... this thing is slow as hell..... So to figure out what the heck was wrong with his car, i promised Edo to go on Dyno..

So.... Just to start of everything, who aint know his car here are the main things that are done to it:

1.8 7AFE
Bored out to 82 mm
Arias Pistons from GZE
CR is rised to 11.02
Head full prot and polish
3 angle valve job
Rods, pistons, crank balanced lightned
Custom build exhaust with resonator and rear muffler only (loud mofo >>)
Custom build CAI with Apex'i Power Intake filter and Cold air box.
Fule perssure regulator.

And Emanage with the Ignition and Injectors wirings.

So, the first run was just to check the condition of the car with hooked up Wide band. 4 gear - till the top (6200 rpm) and we got flames (about 1 meter long!) flying out of his exhaust and wide band going crazy cuz of the RICH mixture.....

First run: 110 hp and 152nm TQ at the crank..... Bad bad bad.......

Well, second run - fuel pressure droped from 60 PSI on WOT till 50 PSI, and ignition advance at +2.

120 hp and 160nm of TQ

better but still not good..... After this Emanage tuning has been done, air flow map was adjusted a bit, and ignition map was changet at +4 in all the RPM range..

Third run: 124 hp and 164nm of TQ.........

another test of ignition at +6...... gave the best result: 127 hp and 166nm of TQ....

here is the Dyno sheet. 1 and second run curves..... You can see how much we gained in some places..... And i can say - now this thing flyes (comparing to ST's celicas >>) yes, it has the power in practicly all the rance and pretty rev happy, cuz you can go all the way till 6500 and listen to this mean deep sound >>





later (sunday maybe) i will put a 2 video files and LOTS of pics from Groundzero performance shop, cuz they had lots of goddies laying around >>

As for now this is all i have >>

Awesome to see an ST put out nice numbers

Still Edos car is missing 10-15 hp and about 25nm of TQ cuz of the Cams he is using (he has USDM 7A head, and USDM ST cuz of emision has 1 mm smaller LIFT then Euro's ST's...)

If he is going with Euro's 7A cams, he will gain even more....

not bad doggy, what all that cost ya? or him i should say..lol >>
good job!

crap

Yeah, i dont get it?

How is the car running with the 11:1 comp ratio?

-lagos+Jun 24, 2005 - 2:35 AM
not exactly "crap"... since its an ST, not bad at all

This post has been edited by tim86: Jun 24, 2005 - 1:19 AM

-doGGy+Jun 24, 2005 - 12:21 AM
Not bad... very respectable numbers... but Euro cams cannot have 1mm bigger lift. That'll put them at 8mm+... which is a moderate lift. Even 3SGEs and 4AGs and such don't have that much stock lift...

Very respectable numbers...

Edo messured both cams i think, i will ask him for about exact number to be sure.

Ok guys I'm at work now so I just write fast thing, then be back in afternoon with more explaination.
When I had my engine rebuilt I had to trash my cams cuz they were jammed by oil pump partial failure I had.
So I got a USDM complete head to rebuid.
Once done the rebuild, p&p etc, the machine shop had to make custom bend to tap the EGR port (and Rom this could be the cause of the noise u told me) and then they called me sayng that they compared the cams and:
Exhaust cams are identical...instead the intake cam was different: same duration but different lift.
Now I don't remember the value but the difference was of exactly 1mm in lift!!!
It's much so now I need to find euro intake cam >>
Anyway not bad numbers for the engine, now I just have to run it, I can't wait foooooooor >> >> >>

good looking numbers edo

well yes and no....I mean....now temperature is high so power is not at maximum and also the camshaft thing is a limit....
U know what, to have a complete idea of what a NA 7afe could put out I'd need good header, bored TB, injector balance, that damn camshat and so we could see a final power around 140, maybe little more and a torque of 180 Nm which is like the stock 5sfe if I'm not wrong.
So...the amount to spend would be 300 at least for header and most out there are crap and I have at least 100$ in shipping oversea >>
Then for a good TB work maybe around 150$, and then for cam could be low if I'd find one.
Solution: TURBO. I think it will be the easier and gain/cost most effective mod.

That's it.

Anyway from 110 to more than 140hp would be not bad >>

I think that's a lot bigger gain than even you're giving it credit for. Remember on the dyno, you're measuring the hp at the wheels. So it's really going from like 90 or so at the wheels to 127, and if you got it up to 140 that would be like a 50% gain. I think the 5s-fe only puts like 95 to the wheels if it's dynoed, so it's even considerably more hp than that.

-lagos+Jun 24, 2005 - 4:35 AM

Well u're not wrong but not right same time >>
U know what? the thing is that swap a 3sgte is kinda easy way to get power (here I risk prison if I'd do it >> ) but personally I have most respect for people like Frotou, Nik and all those who try to get maximum from what is not existing (like 7AGE/GTW) or from something u have to build yourself to improve just using the engine as a basa like 7AFTE or pushed 7AFE also cause people can learn from our experiment improving every time the work and avoiding errors that can cost time and $$$.
So it's just my 2 cents opinion.....
>>

-BlackSTX+Jun 24, 2005 - 4:49 PM

Mmmmmm I still hadn't time to talk well with Rom but I think the power graph shows the engine power not wheel power.... >>

Oh yeah he does say its at the crank.

How did he measure crank hp?

So this is with a stock intake manifold?

-edo17982+Jun 24, 2005 - 9:40 AM
Umm... USDM specs also had different intake and exhaust cam lifts. The intake side had just slightly more lift than the exhaust, but that's not saying the euro specs have a full 1mm lift more than the USDM specs... 1mm is a lot in terms of camshaft lift. Maybe your people are confusing you. Take for example, a typical toyota FE cam profile would be something like 230 degrees duration with 7mm lift... now if they were 1mm larger (8mm lift), they'd be pretty much a moderate camshaft... the sort of profile that comes in stock racy engines... something like a 4AGE blacktop 20V, which has 8mm lift on the intake lobe. Agressive lift cams are typically 9mm lift and more... stock VTEC lift is typically around 9mm to 10mm, while primarys are in the 6mm range. Based on the powerband... I'd say at best, the 7AFE's have something like 6.5-7.2mm lift on stock cams. If there are differences between the european versions and the USDM versions... it'll be nominal... definately not 1mm cause that's a huge difference. I do have USDM camshaft lobe and journal specs... but am too brain dead to degree them and figure out the duration and lift profiles...

Regardless of that... the only real way to take full advatage of your mods... is to get aftermarket camshafts with longer duration and bigger lift. I'd suggest something like 270-280 degrees duration and around 8mm lift for a good street cam...

-Kwanza26+Jun 24, 2005 - 11:32 PM

Believe me I would but no way to find someone making custom cams for 7afe >>
I already thought to thos values but....no maker = no cams >>

How much money have you put into this for the extra 20 hp? can you give us a breakdown maybe? And would you recomend other 7afe's doing this for the limited power u gained?

more along the lines of 35hp. And I still want to know if the car was dynoed at the wheels.

What was the exhaust set up? Stock header? any cats?

couldn't you just have a shop regrind the stock cam to the specs you request???

with those pistons and that engine build you could drop the compression and really kick some ass with a turbo up in the psi's

The HP numbers are at the crank, if you look at the graph, you will see power loss curve at the very bottom. About 18 HP loss at 6K rpm.

As for exhaust - Header on Euro ST's is like on rollas, pipe header 4-2-1, Exhaust is all at 2" NO cat, one resonator (straight through) and rear muffler (straight)

Air filter - Apex'i, short ram air intake, with Cold air box.




-FallenHero+Jun 25, 2005 - 11:44 AM

ok, so what is the hp at the wheels then? 128-18=110whp?

Guess yea >>


-FallenHero+Jun 26, 2005 - 12:49 PM

so about 20-25 hp gain right? How much total went into it

let's say that:

Pistons 400€
Head job (full) 500€
engine block jobs (lightening polish bore ecc) like 600€
exhaust 100€ >>
intake: traded
Emanage +E01 (optional) 600€ more or less
FPR: 80€
Other little things...don't remember

Anyway u have to think that since my engine was blowing out I had to rebuil it so I got the moment to to those things so I can't say it costed me much cuz I need the rebuild and works in the whole count weren't so much

Wow, I love ya man, but it's time to let the 7a head go in favor of a 4ag unit. Can you do such things over there? If not, I'd do it and fab the 7afe valve cover to fit the 4ag. Claim 7a, but have da power to back it up. >>