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Hi Bonzai i've been away for a bit sorry, still not online much at the moment, i'll get round to it eventually, its all on a dvd at the mo, yeah you can set the rear camber, either via an adjustable top mount or i guess you could change the lower arms so there both adjustable rather than just the one at the moment. You can use camber bolts aswell i guess.

any luck with those videos??

How will the drop with superstrut coilover suspension look on a celica with 16x7 rims that have +35 offset and are wrapped in 215/45R16 tires. would you be able to drop the ride height on the front superstrut coilover suspension enough to where you could get a 2 finger gap between the tire and the fender without shortening the travel stroke on the coilover and effecting the performance of the coilover??

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haha sorry i keep forgetting about that, i'll get round to it eventually! as for lowering i am not sure its really any different to mcpherson struts when it comes to what you can and cant do with the rideheight, stroke length is the same if i remember right (dont quote me lol) you can get down to that height and it will work but without shortened shocks you might hit the bumpstops quite often on larger bumps and pot holes. If your going for coilovers though i'm not sure why you wouldnt use shortened shocks though.

Couple of pics. Ride height of my ss3 not long after i first got it sitting on lowering springs and stock shocks, was very comfy until you hit a big enough bump or pothole at which point it would thump as it hit a bumpstop, was fine to live with as long as you remembered to tackle speedbumps carefully! the rear was still higher than i wanted but it might have looked better with bigger rims, that was on 205/55/15's


this is it on trd coilovers, which incedently are the same stroke length and spring height whether mac struts or super, no different. never had any problems with hitting the bumpstops, combo of higher spring rate and shorter shock. tyres are 225/45/16's on an 8 inch wide rim.

ok thanks for clearing that up! nice pic i see you there with the type r right next to you why the helk did you take off the sideskirts, and rear splitters, so that you wouldnt be more aerodynamic (and you also weigh 100kg more than the type r)

I've come to conclusions that it would be a waste of money to get superstrut suspension up in the front. as much as I wud love to have a complete replica ss-III here in the states it would be almost impossible to source parts to convert my front macphearson to superstrut. Also acquiring the parts needed from japan would cost alot, and since they only last about 60,000 miles before parts on superstrut suspension wear out I would need to buy the bushings etc...

I also heard that you wouldnt be able to notice the difference of double wishbone vs macphearson unless you are on the track using the full potential of tires that have a treadwear of 200 or below. With that said I have no further question's to ask as regards to the Superstrut suspension (hybrid between macphearson and multilink suspension), thanks for all the great infor Edophus

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Aug 10, 2012 - 2:59 AM

lol i took the skirts off because i needed to seal up and fix the sills a little, the sideskirts hadnt been sealed properly and water was getting into the body and it was rusting form the inside out, which was why i eventually broke the car up anyway, i never bothered putting them back on and just sold them. The type R next to it i did a lot of work on that, until it tore a hole in the suspension tower the two guys there are two type r owners who joked that my celica was really a bloated ukdm integra type r

I would agree and not advocate the cost of upgrading to superstruts, not unless you could pick up all the parts needed from someone who had taken in a st205 front clip for the engine, then it could work out a nice upgrade with the brakes etc. coilovers dont need to be expensive either you can make them up from inserts like the BC coils or just diy versions, there are ways and means, but not much off the shelf, off the shelf i'd take the trd's over the tien coilovers any day though. A good macpherson strut though will be a lot cheaper and less hassle, and still really good once setup correctly.

I would disagree however with the opinion that you wouldnt notice the difference between double wishbones and macpherson struts unless on track, that is the kind of opinion of someone who has never tried or lived with them all there is a lot of differences, but i did not make a video to demonstrate them unfortunatly one of the major ones, aside from the better geometry, is there is no wheelhop or torque steer, you can get this on both mac strut and doublewishbone setups, i think its something to do with the way the superstrut transmits its load into the body, also there is no rubber bushes up front once you swap to pillowball topmounts, so feedback and stability are exceptional. I think its relevant and important to remember the improvements that have been brought with cars like the renault megane 260r /clio 200 cup and the ford focus RS, all of these cars are the current highest rated front wheel drive cars, with between 200 and 300 plus bhp, they cope remarkably well with there power without suffering horrendous torque steer, this is because they use offset steering axis suspension setups up front, that is one of the benefits that superstrut also has, although superstrut go's further with its geometry for greater improvements, those cars are everyday cars aswell they dont need a track to show there benefits , the focus rs is particularly rated for its ability to handle its grunt.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Sep 6, 2010 - 3:40 PM

no no no edophus I totally know that there would be a major difference between the double wishbone and the macphearson. re read my previous post. I was saying that you wouldnt notice the difference between the double wishbone and macphearson if you were on the streets or the canyon roads.

Oo also another favor can you share some of your knowlegdge in the tein ss coilover thread that I just posted about and take a look at rusty's ss-II progress thread i also posted their as well, A few more answers to all my questions that will complete my research on coilovers for our cars. and as you can see the superstrut and this revo knuckle found on the focus rs are very similar...




Also take a look at this website http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/bccatpar...gory=suspension

as you can see their are two different types of trd strut mounts, one says for superstrut and the other for macphearson, I all stock strut mounts fit both superstrut and macphearson suspension systems??????

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 21, 2013 - 12:58 AM

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yeah but is anyone really aware of the design of the suspension in the car there driving, all anyone cares about really is if its good or not! most people would not be able to attribute any handling traits to a parcticular function of the suspension, but that does not mean there isnt a noticible difference, i drove both a mac strut celica and superstrut celica back to back most days for a year or so, normal commuting and there is a noticible difference between them in daily driving particularly with turn in, and pulling out of junctions where your not pulling away in a straight line, this is exagerated in wet conditions particularly.

yup yup I just want to get the most potential out of the Celica. and the Superstrut will allow this.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 26, 2013 - 11:32 PM

Are those Advan RC's? I've just bought a set of those.

yup and there also for sale if you know of anyone interested, optional with part worn r888's :

yea your celica does look like a bloated integra in that picture, it must be the spoiler and the fact that it doesn't have the sideskirts and rear splitters.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 4, 2013 - 12:26 AM

The parts that wear out are the camber control link and the lower arm no.1

http://www.cheaptoyotaparts.co.uk/index.ph...8&Itemid=71

camber control link: toyota part number: 48066-20060
Lower arm no.1: toyota part number: right 48605-29015 / left 48606-29015

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muhaha haha ha a.... at $1000 for replacement parts, damn this celica business is expensive

so how would I go about getting alignment for the Superstrut over here in California. Do you think any shops even know how to do alignment once I fit the coilovers on with the drop and all???

What is the difference between TRD and Tein SuperStrut Coilovers. They look the same to me, both are green, although the shades of green might be a little different.

one is expensive, the other is discontinued.

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if I were to buy those TRD Superstrut coilovers off RPM Garage would I be able to send them to Tein for them to be rebuilt, or do I have to send it to TRD Japan. It says that the rear right is in bad condition and would cost $280 to rebuild. Are those TRD's better than the Tein??

From what i understand, TRD and TEIN coilovers are one in the same. Maybe why they are priced somewhat the same.
Oh and bonzaicelica, with my current setup, yes teins with the c-one bars (front sway/strut bar-rear strut bar) is bueatiful yo.

This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Sep 23, 2010 - 7:37 PM

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I might envy you now but my dream will come true!!!!

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 25, 2010 - 3:47 PM

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oh wow how the hell do you add items to the shopping cart its driving me nuts!!! and I already registered!!

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 16, 2013 - 8:37 PM

tien and trd are not the same, the trd coilovers use specific kyb inserts, they aren't rebuildable they simply replace the insert, thats why i like trd's there sealed units that will last just as long if not longer than stock struts if treated the same!. the replacement insert's part number can be had from the trd website, just about any garage should be able to replace the insert. Also the dimensions and specs are there so you can replace it with another shock of similar spec.

i'm a bit confused bonzai are you getting superstrut or you buying superstreet teins going by the other thread

SUPERSTRUT SUSPENSION FTW!!! I only go for the best

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 14, 2012 - 8:31 PM

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you spelled it wrong


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Wow cant believe I didn't pick up on this sooner, there is a flaw in your comparison between your mac strut and superstrut. The fact that all ST202 superstrut have an LSD and all mac do not have an LSD factory.



wow so you are doing the conversion now Bonzai? Can you make a thread in general discussion about your SS-III conversion?? (so not to clutter this thread)

yup will do when the time is right. I still have much to learn about the Celica before I take this project on.

Can someone convert these numbers in the ST202 Super Strut Suspension. Im comparing the Tein Superstreet to TRD Circuit Coilover Setup. Except that I cannot compare when the measurements on trd website have the spring rate and dampening at N. Does the N stand for Newton???

If you look on tein's website everything is in kg!!!

http://trdparts.jp/english/parts_suskit.html

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 30, 2010 - 6:07 PM

just multiply the kgf/mm value by 9.81 to get it in N/mm.

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are you meaning my point of view? i understand how to recognize the difference between the suspension and the lsd, an lsd can not mask the inherent problems of a macpherson design vs a doublewishbone/superstrut design. The two things have different effects its not difficult to seperate them.

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BonzaiCelica was saying that you wouldn’t notice the difference between the double wishbone and Macpherson if you were on the streets or the canyon roads.
Yes I would think so too. How and why would you test a car in "normal commuting"(wow i can really feel the difference sitting at these traffic lights!?)
and I’m also saying that would be the lsd working because that’s what it does otherwise you'll still be able to feel it going straight.

There are too many variables in your test/opinion. One way to test it is to get 2 brand new Celica’s 1 with Macpherson, the other with super strut and neither of them have a lsd. Race them round a track with lots of corners, on the same day, and driver etc. Then see what the lap difference is, if any.
I don’t think those 2 Celica’s you drove were in the same condition. They might have had the same amount of miles/kms but 1 car would have had a harder life. Were the tyres the same? Make and model, pressure etc? shocks/struts although they looked fine they'll be worn. Springs standard not after market or lowered. all the mounts and bushes including sub frame etc. Also were were the g-boxs the same s54 or e56 please don't tell me any were auto?

The amount of time and money put in to swap it to super strut I think isn't worth it unless money isn't a factor. The benefits if any would be minimal. What’s the point of doing all that work if you still have stink little tyres and heavy narrow rims. Just buy some better tyres when the ones on your car wear out. You'll get better lap times then(Or get to work faster). Remember there’s lots of good second hand parts out there, and not just standard
And why did the wrc gt4 team and other celica's recenty go from super strut back to Macpherson?




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What are the "inherent problems of a macpherson design vs a doublewishbone/superstrut design" then?

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ah crap an edit seemed to break my post and lost it .

anyway rusty i've never claimed the comparison was scientific, theres no point in dissecting the things i've said as i've never actually been that specific, just passing comment on what i have found in my experience, and when you actually begin to understand the differences in the designs, the advantages/disadvantages you can begin to attribute them to the different parts of the car doing the job. I suggest you do some reading about scrub radius, camber compensation etc, the camber compensation is an important one, the mcpherson strut doesnt do this well, so as you go through a turn and the car rolls, or the wheel go's through bump, the superstrut/doublewishbone design is better able to maintain a good tyre contact patch with the road, so you get higher grip in turns, so higher cornering speeds, so if you took a celica, one with and one without superstrut, everything else equal, the superstrut will be quicker, because the suspension geometry allows it to maintain higher grip levels. Unless the road is glass smooth where you can literally lock the suspension movement of the mac strut to virtually zero so the contact patch didnt change then the superstrut will always be better.

The mcpherson strut at the end of the day is a compromise designed with taking up less space, and being cheaper and simpler to manufacture, and its geometry is comprimised as a result, its that simple. Superstrut allows toyota to put doublewishbones back into that same space, getting around those problems, why do it if it wasnt worth it? seriously?...

The rally car suspension was completely different to the superstrut on the road car, and noone but the team know why they changed back, rally's are a whole other set of circumstances so its just not a valid argument against it.

Also they never changed back from superstrut, the last celica, the gen 7, was offered with superstrut just like the gen 6 was.

Whether its worth it too someone is surely just down to what they want and whether they have the budget for it or would rather just spend the money elsewhere, i'm not going to tell anyone that its a must do upgrade, people can figure these things out for themselves.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Oct 18, 2010 - 9:46 AM

oo very nice argument guys! hey Edophus I love it when you said Whether its worth it too someone is surely just down to what they want and whether they have the budget for it or would rather just spend the money elsewhere, i'm not going to tell anyone that its a must do upgrade, people can figure these things out for themselves.

We all know I'm on the only one crazy enough to do this conversion, so you can just say Bonzai I don't mind you pointing the finger at me. Even people that do the gt-4 awd conversion don't even convert their front mcpherson setup up front to superstrut for some odd reason??

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well yeah but you have said several times you are looking to get the best out of the celica so i can understand why you would want to go to the trouble of doing it. People will have different reasons i guess for converting in either direction or not converting, most people simply dont understand what it is or does, funnily ehough most often the loudest opposers to it, and probably for them its better not to have it cause it will make life easier for them lol. I too am mad enough to fit it to my car, but have a lot further to go as i'm fitting it to a gen 5, but hey it works for me so... I'm currently researching making my own coilovers aswell which you may be interested in at a future date should you go this route.

i think a debate that parralels this one is the integra dc2 vs dc5, in this case honda took what many see as a backward step with the chassis, by losing the doublewishbone up front in favour of mcpherson struts. Now this isnt to say the dc5 isnt a capable car, it is, but the chassis isnt as good as the older dc2, if you listen to tuners who work on both cars, or proffesional suspension tuners, they will tell you the dc5 is much more difficult to setup, is far less versatile, and is just generally compromised from the beginning, so the end result is compromised, as in the example that it'll need much higher spring rates for example to keep camber under control, static camber and castor become a balancing act that can need to be changed for whatever the car is going to be used for that day, or the track its about to run on, so its use becomes comprimised to the situation its been setup for, its much more difficult to setup as an all round good handling car. How much of that is relevant to us depends really on what you are doing, for example, if i just wanted to go drag racing and had done an awd conversion, i'd probably not use the superstrut, but if i was wanting to take my fwd celica autocrossing, i would use superstrut.