Ok, I've done some quick searching and I think I've put the pieces together.


First thing Super Strut isn’t true double wishbone. Super Strut is Toyotas attempt to still have all the benefits of double wishbone but be cheaper to manufacture and also the design made it more compact and lighter. If Toyota were to put true double wishbone in the Celica 1994+ they would have had problems fitting it and would have had to spend lots of money. The good thing about super strut was the design meant it could be installed into the other ST20# series with little modification and saved Toyota alot of money.

I totally disagree, that’s where and why super strut first began. Super strut suspension was developed for use by Toyota in the ST205 rally car, Yes the WRC Celica would have been different (obviously adjustable suspension), they wouldn't have left it standard lol. But the rally car still had the super strut though, so it would have had the same problems as standard road super strut. Due to its design the suspension failed as it could not keep up with the high demands. Creating problems for the team as they would have had to keep maintaining the suspension rather than repairing crash damage and other things. (So they reverted back to conventional Macpherson strut for reliability reasons.)

Its purpose is to minimise camber change throughout the travel of the suspension (when going over sweet jumps ).
All joints in the super strut system are prone to wear, usually the camber (A.) and no1 control arm (B.) are the first and most common to wear, although the lower control arm no2 (C.) can also wear out the rear bush where it mounts to the body. This bush is not sold separately by Toyota. The top ball joint (D) also wears.


For A and B typical replacement kilometres is around 80-120k. but driving style and suspension set up and roads driven on can alter that.
Aftermarket and rebuilt ball joints tend to not last as long, often requiring replacement within 6 months. Even sooner with stiffer springs and shocks by putting more stress on the joints. (So how much is that going to cost you in the long run to maintain it???)

Came across a checklist for checking Super strut. Since it has extra linkages. It causes some issues when trying to diagnose noises in the suspension as it can be hard to pin point which joint has worn.

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The Honda civic 7th gen, they went back to mac because of cost and double wishbone was too big/heavy for them to fit the new bigger and better k series motor in. You mainly see double wishbone on north-south engines e.g. skylines because there is more room on the sides. The DC5 is a good track car, its a jump in race car, never heard any problems with it.

Yes the 7gen Celica an quite a few other Toyota models were available in super strut.

not true, the opposers are people who have super strut, and have to deal with the cost and problems it creates

well that’s what found and think

p.s BonzaiCelica you better start ordering a couple of sets of replacement bushes when u buy your s/s since it's a 6 week wait in postage

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I'm not refering to people finding it expensive as opposers because i can fully understand why they would want to not use it as it can be expensive to maintain no doubt about it, that is fair enough, we must have gone over that a dozen times already, i'm refering to those who say it doesnt work as a suspension design, i've even heard it refered to as a "myth" lol, and some people talk like its made of glass. And of course its not a true doublewishbone design because its a multilink design, but its closest comparison in effect is doublewishbone. I doubt also it is lighter and cheaper than a true doublewishbone design, its certainly both heavier and more expensive from my experience.

Superstrut actually pre-dates the st205 wrc car by a few years, it was first released in 1991, on the corolla levin/treuno, both the corolla and celica platforms did not have provisions for a true double wishbone so to fit a system to those that would perform like a doublewishbone setup then yes we can agree that superstrut could be seen to have saved them money as they didnt need to redevelop the platform. The extra cost of the parts over a true doublewishbone were just passed onto the customer.

The wrc car argument is still not valid, here is a shot of the tte version of superstrut as used on the st205 rally car, it is very very different, different links, all had smaller bearings, it is no comparison at all, it is nothing like the road cars.


As for the honda's, its amazing isnt it then that if the engine bay wouldnt have been wide enough for the K series engines they use now, that those same engines fit just fine into the older chassis with doublewishbones all round lol, its a cost/simplicity based decision pure and simple, the accord euro r has the k series and doublewishbones up front. My own daily driver is doublewishbones all round and transverse engine setup, no packaging problems, plenty of room for the drivetrain and suspension, a k20 also would fit in there justfine. There is no problems as such with the dc5 you misunderstand, it is simply not as good a chassis as the car it replaced due to the loss of doublwishbone suspension in the front, this is not just my opinion, but that of proffesional suspension technicians who setup race cars.

I'll summarise again, to put it simply, superstrut is the better suspension system geometrically, but has a higher cost. Mcpherson strut is more robust and cheaper, but is compromised geometrically. Of course how you measure performance, and therefore which is best to you, is relative to application, so for each person, the answer of which is the better choice can be different.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Oct 22, 2010 - 9:56 AM

ooo more info on the superstrut suspension. I don't think there can be anything else said on this topic. haha thanks to me I got you guys to squeeze all the juice out of this thread.

So I believe the only thing that will truly hold me back from doing this is if I cannot acquire a set of used Tein Super Strut Coilovers. There is no way in hell I'm buying these new. I dont want to spend $3000 for coilovers, when I could spend it on other goods. My plan is to buy the used ones off nengun auctions and then have them rebuilt here in california for $300 all back to factory specs at 7k in front and 5k in rear. I haven't seen any posted on nengun auctions in a while, but when the time is right, I'm hoping there will be some. TRD are slightly better coilover's with the spring rates at 8k front and 6k rear the same spring rates as the integra type r super street tein coilover's. Being that it costs $280 to rebuild one strut from TRD, for another $20 I can have all 4 tein coilovers rebuilt.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 26, 2013 - 11:37 PM

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hope it works out for you Bonzai!. Depending on how quickly i can get things done, and where your at i'm looking at converting stock superstrut struts to coilovers using inserts and adding threaded sleeves etc, thats possibly another option for you, and good value, and a good setup, probably better than a lot of jdm coilovers tbh, i'm using shorter inserts to keep stroke length when lowered, thats the plan at least, i've been unable to start yet due to no workspace but that will change within the next month. Thats essentially what the trd's are and hence why they arent rebuildable as such, as to rebuild them, you have to pay for a new insert, but you arguably get a better product that way, not that tiens are that bad, but it depends who you listen too, most people are more than happy with them, which is all that matters. BC coilovers also do a cheapish kit for the st205 which is probably one of the better budget coilovers, you need to do a little work to the front struts though but any engineering company could do it no problem, they would most probably be happy to sell you a kit that comprised of st205 front and st202 rear coilovers, and spring rates of your choice.

If your buying second hand struts its worth getting a fresh balljoint, the upper one D on rusty's diagram, added, its a fairly easy job to change and they are cheap, its common for people to burst the boots on these when removing the strut, unless you use my method . You are basically doing what i have done btw and getting a whole superstrut setup from a front clip, although in my case i got it from a breaking st205 for very little money, and its all near new condition, having been replaced on the car not long before it was broken up, i will hopefully never have to pay full price for any parts this way, it does not have to be expensive, if you take the oppertunity when parts come up and plan ahead.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Oct 23, 2010 - 2:15 PM

i finnally uploaded a bit more of the ss3, this is some footage from one corner my freind took, it is a 80-90mph corner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfa8GUMUElc

the guy you hear talking about it not sounding as good as his and passing the integra's is my honda loving freind who's integra and civic i did a lot of work on. If you see the vid in the wet he is not happy when i pass him and pull a lead on him, but meh, he had d2 coilovers and they were a joke, cheap coilovers usually suck, he changed to hks coilovers and they were so much better.

btw way i forgot to mention the inserts in the trd suspension kit, are the same between the mcpherson and superstrut versions, so when you hear people say there are less options for the superstrut cars, there are actually just less cheap off the shelf options, there are just as many good options for either, i personally wouldnt be touching the likes of tien, d2, ksport, megans, bc, thats not because there crap because we all know people are happy with them, but for only a little more you can have a better setup thats customised to your choice, using the likes of koni or bilstien inserts, i find people who say that there is less options, dont actually know all the options .

This post has been edited by Edophus: Oct 24, 2010 - 4:37 PM

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I show about $1,700 Shipped to California from Nengun. That's So Much

how much did you lower those TRD Coilovers when you went to the track, or did you not adjust the height?? Do the TRD have rebound adjustment as well???

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they were pretty much as low as was practical, what measurement compared to stock that was i dont know, at a guess maybe 2 inches, maybe more even. They are single adjustable, i would have thought it adjusts both bound and rebound together, the kyb inserts have 4 adjustment settings to cover a range of different spring rates from 6kg/mm to 16kg/mm up front and 4kg/mm to 10kg/mm at the rear.

What i'm looking into is converting the original superstrut by hacking them apart and welding on a sleeve with adjustable spring platform and using a double adjustable insert to get both rebound and bound adjustment, pretty much identical job to the way its done on the front struts of an ae86 for example. Still waiting to see what some other suspension company's can do in terms of taking the original strut and converting it before commiting to either route though.

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good deal. I'll have some information with specs and prices very soon. hopefully by Thursday or Friday.

these are quite expensive Edophus. Although Tein might not be up to par with these TRD they are way cheaper. that price doesn't include shipping to the U.S. another $120 for shipping. $1500 for Brand new Cartridges. I'm better off buying Tein Coilovers for the McPherson setup for $1400. Koni doesn't make any custom shocks. I'm going to contact Ohlins to see what kind of a price they give me.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 18, 2013 - 10:58 PM

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Exactly correct....because the TTE WRC rally cars did not use Superstrut, they may have very early on, but it was soon removed and replaced with McPherson set up

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ahh now I see what you mean Edophus. I just took a look at the trd website and always wondered why there where so many different springs to choose from. Stock the TRD Coilover kit comes with 8kg and 6kg for the ST202 and back then when TRD did make the other stiffer coil springs you could buy them and them adjust the dampening rate. Hmm clever stuff.

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not exactly what i meant, the superstrut they did use on the tte wrc cars bears no resemblance to the superstrut of the road cars, so the comparison is pointless.

Bonzai i think you should just go for the tein mcpherson struts it will be cheaper and easier less deliberation!

This post has been edited by Edophus: Dec 13, 2010 - 3:59 AM

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yea man that's what I'm going for a little mishap with the celica today is made me come to reasoning that, that will be my setup. oh well life goes on

Hello there

I'm going to replace the "camper control link" and "lower arm no. 1" on my GT-Four.

Is there only OEM parts for that, or it there some performance replacements part out there in the world

/Boyota

Just OEM parts

guide to converting superstrut to mcerphson will be made in separate thread. link below...

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1030522

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 7, 2013 - 1:24 AM

Axles are different. The superstrut hubs have 21 splines instead of the 20 splines on the macpherson setup

don't worry nsxtype r is wrong continue reading down the whole thread. you'll see proof there.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 16, 2013 - 12:49 AM

wait, I read somwhere that st204 and st205 hubs are interchangeable,.........no the aren't?

yes dude the hubs are the same, so in turn if you read the whole thread you'll see the american axles S54 fitting into gt4 knuckle.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 16, 2013 - 12:49 AM

So how would i go about making the super strut suspension work with american axles they are more available. Im thinking no way unless changing the knuckle but then nothing will bolt on......maybe ill just have to get st205 outers?

This post has been edited by yungazzdriver: Apr 19, 2011 - 8:43 AM

Never mind I just read up on the how to change from super strut to mcpherson. The problem I had was I'm doing rhd conversion and had super strut suspension and all. At first I ws going to do the awd then I decided just to do lsd fwd. Now I thought I needed to keep the whole front suspension to do the rhd conversion but the I needed to order ksport for the st205 and ksport for st204. After I read the how to, I will keep my current setup and use the rack n pinion from the st205 and custom tie rods....along with the st205 brakes using all the st204 parts and this way all I need to order is the ksport pro coilovers for a gt celica. Hopefully this will work right.

edophus what type of sway bars were you running when you were racing the type r on the track??

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stock bars for that track and my tyres they were just perfect, stiffer isnt always better.

Did every Gt four (st205) come from factory with superstrut?

Yes

So if you find a gtfour for sale with after market Macpherson style coilovers, that means it has been converted from superstrut to macpherson by the previous owner?

yes or its an alltrac

That's correct. Many 6th gen GTFOUR owners did swap to McPherson. For this setup there's a lot of aftermarket choice that also is affordable. Superstrut coilovers are rare and very expensive.

This post has been edited by nsxtypeR: Jun 18, 2011 - 1:35 PM