>


Thank you malpaso,

I respect very much your opinion.

BTW I have to return back on " Paseo " because " someone ", as usual.... didn't understand what I meant....
probably because he's too young, and so can't know what CELICAS were years ago.


First of all I have to say I don't see ANY offence, ANY, in saying that a T23 is more a Paseo evolution than a Celica:
T23 are good cars... beatiful cars for some, bad cars for other.... even if Toyota called them Celica or Paseo.
So your post is really a nonsense and unuseful.

Second, who REALLY knows the Celica history MUST admit that the T23 is not A Celica, and this is a fact.
And I explain why:

- Celica was a LUXURY coupe', ALWAYS:
I bought my 1992 ST185 RC for 32000 euros ( and that was 15 years ago );
I bought my 1995 ST205 for 40000 euros ( and that was 11 years ago ).
40000 euros of 11 years ago are around 60000 actual euros.
This is what a Celica was... a luxury coupe', VERY expensive and techie for the standard of those years, for 25 to 45 year's old man that wanted an EXOTIC car with high performance engines.

The T23 is definitely NOT a luxury or expensive coupe' ( sorry, hatchback in USA ! ), but an entry-level 25000 euros coupe, and its target is younger people 18/30 years old, like the Paseo.

- Toyota always had rally races in its mind when projecting T16 - T18 - t20, and I mean particular engine/suspension/chassis solutions, over-measured for a simple street use, but good for future rally use.

T23 has not rally races in its DNA.

- AND: T18 is clearly an evolution of the T16, it's evident to anyone.... more power, better chassis, better suspension and better brakes.

T20 is clearly an evolution of the T18, it's evident to anyone.... more power, better chassis, better suspension and better brakes.

And the T23 ? Can we say that T23 is AN EVOLUTION OF THE T20 ????????????????????????????????

Are we joking or what ?

T23 is a completely different car from the T20, and as many people said, the name "CELICA" was used on the T23 only for COMMERCIAL REASONS.

That's why the T23 is more a Paseo evolution, than a T20 evolution.

Like it or not, and without OFFENDING anyone.

1st gen celica rwd
2nd gen celica rwd
3rd gen celica rwd

4th gen celica fwd
5th gen celica fwd
6th gen celica fwd


i read somewhere that the female market in usa said tha a rwd drive car is hostile and dangerous to be driven on wet/ slippery road. i bet someone can find this with a search. u said that 4th, 5th and 6th gen celicas are real celicas but they are all different from first celicas. i believe evolution sometimes is gentle sometimes is rough. but is still evolution even if u, me or anyone else likes it

>


Eh eh, recycle... don't try this game with me... NO MORE awd cars ?

1st gen rwd ( rally car LB2000GT - RA28 - 18R-GU engine - 130 cv )
2nd gen rwd ( rally car 2000GT-RALLY - RA45 - 18R-GEU engine - 135 cv )
3rd gen rwd ( rally car 1800GT-Turbo - TA63 - 3T-GTEU engine 160 cv )
4th gen fwd AND AWD ( rally car ST168 - 3S-GTE 185 cv)

PS: they changed from RWD to AWD for rally races reasons !

5th gen fwd AND AWD ( rally car ST185RC - 3S-GTE 235 cv )
6th gen fwd AND AWD ( rally car ST205 - 3S-GTE 255 cv )

7th gen only fwd - NO rally car - and for the first time engines with less power than previous gen




>

Oh yes, 1st gen is quite different from 6th gen !

But the 4th gen is really similar, and clearly, an evolution of the 3rd gen !









BTW, let's go ahead... if someone wants to carry 7th gen's friend, no problem.

I think we are going away from what this topic is for.

I think the concensus is that all celicas are invited and that we are having a large meeting in italy. If the country organisers decide themselves that they only want to invite a specific gen then fine, but I think its down to each organiser to decide whom they want to invite from their country?

I personally don't 'know' anyone on this site (even the UK people) so can't we just all try to get on? If we all have cars that we are personally proud of then I don't see why there should be any reason to have a go at someone. Fair enough if someone has a car thats a pile of crap and not looked after then fine don't ask them to come, but most of us if not all are proud of our cars and look after them like we would our children.

anyway, back to the topic......

the T23 is not a ugly car.. but...
I share the WOLF opinion
the last REAL CELICA is the T20!!

>
Agree... this is not "against 7gen celica" topic. Post opinion about "be just 6gen meet or not to be" is one thing but this is different story. More than that, this is the best way lock this topic (did you see "meet poll topic" ???)

I'm seriuosly thinknig of tagging on to this proposed meet - its a great idea.

BTW - I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the Gen7 Celica as really being a Gen3 Paseo - no-one else in the UK sees it that way.

>





Speaking of the 7th gen like a Paseo was ironically for me, even if I explained why, not only IMHO, but with facts, the last real is our beautiful 6th gen.

Back on topic,

I wrote many reasons why this, IMHO, will have to be a 6th gen meeting:

1. THIS is a 6gen forum, with 6 gen people that write/read posts, and had the idea of a european meeting to meet each other

2. There is ALREADY an european ALL gen Celicas meeting every year:

this year is the next 03 September in Nederland, www.tccn.nl

When there was not an European only 6th gen Celicas Meeting, never and nowhere.

3. IMHO it will be more funny to meet 6gc forum people

4. A fact, and not imho, is that it would be more funny for the participants, and easy, a less car only 6gen meeting.
I already know how it is difficult to take 30 cars around in the roads to reach places, and restaurants.
Move 60/80 cars will be VERY HARD.
Move 150 cars will be impossible.

5. Also, you can even hardly find the same hotels and restaurants for 100 people...
But will be impossible to make 200 people to eat in the same restaurant.

This said... do what you wanna do, no problems for me.

Only give me an idea of many people, as soon as you can.

Italy: 20 cars-25 members
CZ: 1-5 cars; 2-9 people (1 for sure, 4 just told if bla, bla, bla I'll come...)
UK: 5?
France: 5?
Germany: 10?
Croatia:1-2 cars, 3-6 people (unconfirmed...have to catch them all)
Spain: 2?
Swiss: 10?
Austria: 2?
Poland: 2?
Hungary:
Russia:
Finland:
Cyprus: 20?
Greece:
Lithuania: 1-2 cars, 2-4 people FOR sure

ok then. gen6 only. i don't care.

>
i do care

>

i respect ut opinion.
real celica or not is still a celica.
i know its difficult to have a 150 car meeting but not impossible. we have tryied it in cyprus and i can be done.
i still believe (and hope and want) to have a celica meeting.

note: www.tccn.nl looks like a 20 car show. nothing more

@recycle
Thank you for pointing out that this is an Celica Meeting of all generations (1st to7th). You came up with that idea and this is what the majority wants = So lets get all Country organisators to spread the first plan throughout their country.

I can recommend to do it this way:
1) As country organisator choose the biggest Toyota or Celica Community of your country. There you post a Tread that the 1st PECM will be held in Aug 07 in Italy, that all gen. Celicas are invited and that this thread will be regularly updated.
2) You start in that thread a list where you name all Boards, Websites, or groups where Celicas drivers can be found. Then you ask the community to help you to fill the list. (Because we do not know all boards or groups out there )
3) You set a date, for example 1 week until the list should be finished.
4) then after that week you send a thread or an email to al these communities of your list with the information of our meeting and that they can login into the big community ( the one from my point 1) ) to get an regularly update....

In that way it should work that we get nearly all Celica drivers to know about our event. In the PECM thread of your country you can then update all the information regarding this event, start to organize the convoy...

I hope this is some help for some of you....

cheers Joerg

This post has been edited by snakeloa: Aug 31, 2006 - 11:19 AM

mate thank u for ur support to my idea.

your timetable is too tight. 1 week is imposible. to help wolf organising this very difficult meeting i would say that each country organiser should say by the end of november the maximum and minimum numbers of celicas that will come.

for example germany 10-12 cyprus 9-15 uk 11-13.
the average of this is the actual number of cars that are going to be in parma next august. (10+9+11, 12+15+13 so average of 35 cars will be at the meeting.
this is the number of reservations to be made, and the price of each person to pay for the track). then the countries orginiser should collect money from the actual number of celicas coming (wolf said about 150E and i guess this is for hotels advance and track). wolf asked this money by the end of may.
if the total number of cars is more than the one calculated (and the track money more than the 6500E) then i beleive the money should be used at the restaurant/track/something ) anyway i dont believe the total number of cars will much different from the calculated one.

now about the convoys. each country organiser should find the best route for the car and a most likely cost.
also to come in contact with other countries organanisers on the way to parma, to get bigger convoys and place to stay, if trip is more than 1 day. for example i already caclulated the cost for cypriots (1400-1500cyp that is 2450-2600E and i believe this is the greatest from any european country) and i am trying to reach greek people (if any interested coming) and also people from bulgaria romania and turkey(again if any) to join our convoy.
i have found ship times and costs, calculated gas consumpion 400km/tank at 70 euro tank, tolls (!) hoped to cover everything.

i know is a hard work to be done, but i think the smile of seeing all kind of celicas from all over europe, different kind of registration plates, seeing very nice cars, like vsideboys, tufys, wolfs, snakeloa (i am telling these cos these people said already yes and i know how their car looks like, i am not hostile to any other celica, all celicas are beautiful imo). this is the reward of hard work, and i feel it everytime we have meeting here in cyprus. but this will be much bigger and stronger and sweeter feeling.

>


I know you do mate, I do really. I'm just getting sick of the arguing.

@ recycle... You missunderstood my point... Please reread my post

It is just an example! And this 1 week is only to put together a list of all boards, groups and communities where celica members could be registered. Then after 1 week you have a list with boards like 6GC or with groups like the the GT4OC...

This one week is not to get all owners together just to get a list where Celica owners are registered!!!

Let me show you: Here is what i have done in the biggest Toyota CBoard of Germany.

PECM 07 Germany

There you see a list of internet Links and emails to Celica groups... I think with the help of the biggest Toyota Community in each country it is easy to complete each list.

And again it is just a guide to make it easier to Country organisers who might face some problems.

Then when you have contacted all these adresses you can tell them to reply in the thread on your choosen communication site (best would be again the biggest site where you posted the initial information) that they should please tell you until..... lets say end of november how many will come.

Cheers Joerg

This post has been edited by snakeloa: Aug 31, 2006 - 3:10 PM

any news?

well so far we have spread the word in germany. The response is good. a lot of the members is looking forward to get more information...

Orange is organizing switzerland...
And he is going to setup an "german"informationsite for the PECM 07, with all information and a participant list for germany,austria and Switzerland.

Here is a preview !!! It is only a preview !!!
http://www.gtfour.ch//meeting/2007/pecm

celi_t23 will organize Austria i think.

By the way orange asked me if the booking for the hotels are going to be send to wolf how will be responsible if someone won't show up??

cheers Joerg

This post has been edited by snakeloa: Sep 9, 2006 - 11:36 AM

Joerg,

the map on gtfour.ch site is wrong, please tell them.

About the booking:

I'll make the booking for all the members that send the money to me before May 2007.

If someone will pay, but, then, will not come to the meeting, probably is going to loose the money:
I don't want to book 100 rooms in an hotel, and then have a 20/30 % of people that doesn't come!

August is a particular period of the year ( holidays, many tourists ecc... )... so we will have to pay IN ADVANCE all the rooms we will book.

Hope you understand...

This post has been edited by Wolf_tm: Sep 10, 2006 - 4:45 AM

Fine thank you wolf... i will tell him.

@ all. Ornage suggested that we could use his Info-site for all Countries. Then we would have got a great overview of how many people would like to come.

We would have a datalist of all participants, sorted by countries in one big databank. That might be easier for all of us.

If you think so too. Then tell me?!?

We would have to discuss how the info site would have to look like.
From my point of view it should be:
1) a site in several languages. (english, german, italien ???)
2) it should be a content of @ least three subsites a) an infosite with all facts of the meeting b) a formular where everybody can enter his details to take part as participant and c) a list of allready signed participants sorted by countries

Questions i have what should we ask in the formular?:
Name, Surname, Street No, Zip Code, Town, Region, Country, Tel, Mobil , email, how many participants, which kind of room they want, how many nights they want to book, which car they drive....

Well think about it and tell me.... There are a lot of open questions to discuss and a lot of them are related to the program of Wolf.

Wolf what information would you like to get?

cheers Joerg
My s

>


Joerg,

I already thought about this issue,

and I am going to build a simple forum on the forumfree circuit, with one section for every nation that will be present, and a general section for the general info.

In every national section you MUST talk in your language, while we will use English in the general section...
and in the general section ONLY the national organizer can write:
I think this is the better way to organize all the things.


About the program:
as I told, unfortunately with so many cars we are going to have a very static meeting...
think about this... 1 car in movement occupies around 20 meters ( 5 meters the car, plus 15 meters of space between the car ahead ).... and 150 cars means 150 * 20 = 3 KILOMETERS of our cars in queue !

And believe me if I say it'll be HARD to make roads with so many cars...

BTW let's see the numbers for first, and according to the real participants, I'll think about the better things to do.

This post has been edited by Wolf_tm: Sep 10, 2006 - 7:29 PM

THE PECM 2007 FORUM:

http://pecm2007.forumfree.net

Please create an account with the SAME nickname you use here on 6gc.

The national organizators will be moderators in the PECM forum.

Please complete the national organizators list or add the new countries:

Holland: Kadett - Maarten van Dommelen - dommelske@planet.nl - MSN: dommelske@msn.nl
Germany: Snakeloa @6GC, Joerg Calvis, Joergcalvis@gmx.de
Cyprus: recycle, Demetris, recycle@cy.net, +357 9935 7516 (also magic and tufy can be contacted)
UK: gt4uk
Italia: wolf_tm, Wolf, wolf_tm@tre.it, www.celicat20.it
Czech Rep.:malpaso, Martin, 6gc.net@centrum.cz, +420737217345
France:
Spain:
Switzerland:Orange@ GTfour.ch, Stefan Vifian, orange@gtfour.ch, 0041797713728
Poland:
Finland:
Croatia: IGloo; igluhak@inet.hr

I have made just a little recon and made trip to Italy last week... I have many findings . My trip looked like this:



...and I saw there (everytime: English name/Italian name)
Naples/Napoli.


Mount Vesouvius/Monte Vesuvio...




...of course also Pompeii/Pompei




Capri.


Colosseum/Colosseo in Rome/Roma.




Vatican/Vaticano.




Observed local traffic, drivers and people...




...plus local police officers


Consumed national food


...and spotted 6 times 6gen celica in Rome (in two days)!




yea... really informative trip .

This post has been edited by malpaso: Sep 11, 2006 - 9:07 AM

OK, I will take up position for Poland. I do not think there will be numerous response to this meet (due to distance / costs) but maybe 2-3 people will manage. I am planning to be there too.

Holland: Kadett - Maarten van Dommelen - dommelske@planet.nl - MSN: dommelske@msn.nl
Germany: Snakeloa @6GC, Joerg Calvis, Joergcalvis@gmx.de
Cyprus: recycle, Demetris, recycle@cy.net, +357 9935 7516 (also magic and tufy can be contacted)
UK: gt4uk
Italia: wolf_tm, Wolf, wolf_tm@tre.it, www.celicat20.it
Czech Rep.:malpaso, Martin, 6gc.net@centrum.cz, +420737217345
France:
Spain:
Switzerland:Orange@ GTfour.ch, Stefan Vifian, orange@gtfour.ch, 0041797713728
Poland: TomPoz - Tomasz Pozniak, tompoz@celica-club.org.pl
Finland:
Croatia: IGloo; igluhak@inet.hr

>
You copied my trip from more than 10 years ago...

>


Malpaso...

you really went here ?????

We have many members in Rome... you HAD to tell us !!!

>


Perfect Mate !



>


No problem... only the brave will come !

I will do my best handling Lithuania Members. Please guys if there will be some really really important news - please email me cuz im not as much on 6gc as i was before. I think from our country there will be atleast 2 or 3 members - i think driving i will join Poland club and come with them.



Holland: Kadett - Maarten van Dommelen - dommelske@planet.nl - MSN: dommelske@msn.nl
Germany: Snakeloa @6GC, Joerg Calvis, Joergcalvis@gmx.de
Cyprus: recycle, Demetris, recycle@cy.net, +357 9935 7516 (also magic and tufy can be contacted)
UK: gt4uk
Italia: wolf_tm, Wolf, wolf_tm@tre.it, www.celicat20.it
Czech Rep.:malpaso, Martin, 6gc.net@centrum.cz, +420737217345
France:
Spain:
Switzerland:Orange@ GTfour.ch, Stefan Vifian, orange@gtfour.ch, 0041797713728
Poland: TomPoz - Tomasz Pozniak, tompoz@celica-club.org.pl
Finland:
Croatia: IGloo; igluhak@inet.hr
Lithuania: Doggy - Romas Tamulevicius, info@dogcustom-works.com +37067170000 AIM: doggydpit

Doggy,

please only join here:

http://pecm2007.forumfree.net/

make a " Participants list " thread and write the temporary members list that will come from your country... this is all you have to do....

This post has been edited by Wolf_tm: Sep 11, 2006 - 12:06 PM

Hi everybody!
I live in Milan and I take part of the CelicaT20 club/forum, but also of the greek celicaclub, cause I’m greek.
Well, I can post a thread about the European meeting at the greek forum.
But, you have to know that in Greece exists a unique celica club/forum for all the generations. I ‘ve seen on this thread that you have a disagreement on what exactly you prefer to do. I can perfectly understand the concept of an only 6th celica’s generation European meeting, it will also be more flexible and easier to manage, but I think that the invitation can’t exlude the other generations, specially at the countries that they don’t have separate clubs for the different models. I also know that recently some greeks was thinking to organise a trip/meeting to Italy or somewhere in Europe, but they still have not many contacts in Europe and the club there is almost new. Well, I'm gonna post it as a 6th generation european meeting and then we will see...

By the way, I would like to say that I’ve been at the national meeting of Italian celicaT20 at Parma last May and I think that it’s an amazing place. Varano is very close, there are many itineraries to do by car at the mountains and…the food is delicious (….the wine too!!!!! ). I think it’s a very good choice and I‘ll be there even I’ll have to go from Greece!

@ recycle and others of Cyprus and who has to cross Greece: If you want any information about the trip from Greece, roads, ferry boats etc, you can ask me (also by pm in greek). Just few days ago I’ve returned from Thessaloniki and I use to do this trip by car. Thessaloniki-Milan on average 26 hours Parma is 1 hour less. Thessaloniki -Turkish border is about 400 km (less of 4 hours).

Bye!!!
Maria

PS: Sorry for my english....

>
Same here in Poland.