primarily for conversation...

seeing as the 2AZFE has assumed the role of replacement for the 5SFE, and it is similar in application and displacement....how feasible/worthwhile is a swap in your opinion?

i got to thinking about it because it is a much better 6-speed option than the peaky, fragile 2ZZ.

based on a quick browse on ebay, the highest price i found for the motor itself was $1700.

and for pete's sake, don't be obnoxious.

it looks like the engine faces the correct way atleast, but you'd need to make your own wiring harness and retrofit all the OBD2 stuff in or find a way to eliminate it. the 2azfe seems like a good strong engine, and alot lighter than the 5sfe, it'd be a nice well balanced upgrade that would make the cars balance closer to center.

Balance doesn't feel to bad now, but lighter is always better. Is that the 2.4 in the Camry? I'll look it up.
EDIT: Looked it up. That's the Camry and TC motor. It's nuts. They are saying someone got 320 NA hp out of that motor. That's just stupid. It just seems like a bigger 5sfe with vvti. Am I missing something? How come they can get so much more power out of a 2.4 than has been gotten from a 2.2? I guess they even talked of putting it in the Lotus instead of the 2zzge. I'm just mad that my motor sucks right now. This happens at least once a week it seems. Damn 5sfe.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Nov 9, 2006 - 3:03 AM

Is this engine a A-series engine like the 4A and 7A?

^dont think so, that Z is looking outta place

the 2azfe is a well rounded engine, fairly new, there is a trd supercharger or you can buy a turbo kit. ZPI (zero point industries, big name for the TC community) offers a 230 whp to 350+ turbo kit for the 2az.

Other than .2 liters and vvti, I want to know what is so much better about this motor. .2liters isn't going to help that much, and the the vvti advantage should be fixable with a set of cams.

I have a 2azfe! soon to be 2azfze

the motor is newer, better technology. to be honest, i dunno what makes it much better than the 5sfe. perhaps head design? i know the 2az actually handles quite well under boost. not too sure about the 5s.

the trick is, does the trans that fit our mounts, fits the engine?

it did with the 3MZFE

if it does with the 2AZFE, you got yourself a project on your hands

Rumors has it that the S-Series Trannies will work with the 2AZFE

BTW: Its a AZ series motor.

Z in every Toyota engine usually means.. Great for Supercharger [or has a S/C avail.]

This post has been edited by jdg371: Nov 9, 2006 - 10:33 PM

also it has some forged internals stock, for example forged rods. the 2azfe is somewhat overbuilt from the factory, probably to handle the TRD supercharger without any longevity problems. that means it could also handle moderate turbo boosting with a good tuning.

now THIS is what i'm talking about! thanks for all the input so far, keep it coming.

from what i've found so far, the 2A is used in basically the same cars the 5S was--the camry and the "celica" (quotations used b/c i think the tC was intended to replace said car )...this means the intake, etc. should all be in the same/similar locations, the weight should be close, and so on.

i'd really like to know how far off the motor mounts are (although i have a feeling they are right), what the transmission options will mean for axle length and such, and how many wiring changes will be required to make an OBDII engine communicate well with an OBDI chassis.

bigmeanbulldog, i think it is a bigger, better 5sfe, and that's all i've wanted all along! if i were to attempt a swap, n/a would be my weapon of choice for the meantime. but as bitter noted, forged internals point this thing right at forced induction.

the wiring would be the biggest concern, i imagine. i'll pm the good doctor and see what he thinks.

edit- whoa!

This post has been edited by uberschall: Nov 9, 2006 - 11:47 PM

i dont think the last statement jdog made is true. the "az" is just the series of the motor.

>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_engines

the Z denotes that it has some overbuilding to potentially handle a supercharger, it doesnt mean that all Z engines have superchargers, just the capability is there in the engine.

It's just a bigger 5SFE-type motor... but newer and with better technology. "AZ" does NOT denote any overbuilding or anything related to a supercharger. It's simply the engine family code... which many of the later toyota motors have the added 'Z' in the block code (ie: ZZ,AZ,JZ,TZ, MZ, etc). Also... I have opened up this motor before and the internals are not anything special... just typical mass-produced toyota parts. Pistons are basic cast slugs, like 90% of toyota pistons are, and rods are typical design. Also note... ALL stock rods under-go forging to reduce brittleness, but because of manufacturing costs... most all stock rods in all engines are cast. Stock 'press-forged' type rods are far too expensive to produce in mass for mass produced motors like the 2AZ.

To close... IMO, it would make an alright swap engine if you plan on boosting it...

i thought i read somewhere that the 2azfe came with forged steel rods?

>
Hehe... everything is technically "forged"... which is just a process of heating metal... but 'forged' as in not molded/cast from a master mold... no they aren't. You can tell by tool marks. Cast parts always have tool marks while 'forged' parts do not.

>


if you want to dig up more info on the 2AZ, i suggest you look around the tC forums. It will never fit a celica if it doesn't fit our transmissions (S5_ or E-153). Axles are already figured out for you, either use stock axles with the stock trans or go for the e-153+mr2/st185 axle combo.

It's nice to dream and ooooo aaaaa over this engine but it's just fantasy if it can't fit our cars !!!

wiring is NOT a corcern, it's electrical. Anything electrical can be modified to work, how much wiring you will have to do is what you need to determine. I'm 99% sure it's just as much as the 3MZFE i built (since they both come in camrys), wiring was a breeze, i find. You should worry more about mechanical parts that don't fit.

keep digging and good luck

>

whose jdog? I scrolled up looking for his name and I dont see it

I popped the hood on my aunts Camry, and it looks the same as the 5sfe. I thought it was until I noticed the 2400 stamp. If it doesn't bolt right up, it has to be close. Toyota wouldn't just drasticly change things like that.

>
i think you have that backwards, a Forged piston is machined from a solid piece of metal, a cast one is cast to the rough shaped and then cut to specs. forged is stronger than cast because the structure of the metal is uniform throughout, theres not casting flow following edges of the pieces.

Forged

and i did mispeak, its the 2RZ-FE with the forged steel rods. R and A look kind of similar sometimes and things got confused.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Nov 10, 2006 - 11:44 AM

This might be a little off topic but hey. I raced a friends Scion TC with TRD supercharger on a close road yesterday. I lost to him like 3 car lengths. Just thought id share.

>
Yes, but with a 4age, you looked cooler loosing. lol, I just like the 4age for there potential and light weight. Depending on the length of the race, 3 car lengths isn't bad for about twice the hp advantage of the TC and just a few hundred pounds more.

My TC has 2azfe my gt has 5sfe.. an i have had the pleasure of tearing down an building both engines (2azfe no from my tc) .. so yes the 2az is a better engine just cause the technology.. an the extra .2 litters does help .. an having better engine management system

>
Refer to the bold word. To forge is to basically work hot metal (or even cold metal). When people say 'forged' internals, typically they refer to non-cast parts (forged by shaping)... however ALL engine parts undergo a forging process of heating and cooling to reduce brittleness and/or plasticity of a metal. All I'm saying is... 90% of stock internals are cast in mass... and are not shaped by a forging process... however they do undergo a heating/cooling process (also called forging) to gain the desired brittleness/plasticity. Such is the nature of iron alloys. Cast metals are typically not as strong because of casting flaws and because casting requires metal to become molten, but is easy to mass produce. Like I said before... it's easy to tell which parts are cast parts and which are 'forged' parts by looking at tool marks. This is HIGHLY HIGHLY misunderstood amongst the tuner crowd. 4AGZE pistons are often reffered to as factory forged pistons, when they are actually cast pistons with a heat resistant ceramic coating. 4AGZE rods too, are often reffered to as 'forged'... when they are cast rods identical to all 4AG rods on the 42mm crank (minus the blacktop 20V).

perhaps we should start using the word machined to describe part of the process...

edit: nevermind

This post has been edited by uberschall: Nov 11, 2006 - 8:12 PM

>

Yes they would. The S series motor's design development started in the early 80's... They aren't GM, you know...

who freaking cares about the definitioin of 'forged' and whether they'd just change things all of the sudden!!! This Topic has some serious potential, so "c'mon guuyys Keeap it Serial!"

>r u serious? i meant jdg. sorry... i thought ud figure it out.

>

I was bored out of my mind.. LOL

k back to the main topic

yea i plan to drop 2azfe. it would be street legal in california.