ok i have read that the 4age head gasket fits a 7afe so i would like to know if i use a set of 4agze pistons with a 2mm head gasket will i be ok for 10-12psi of boost or will the gze pistons raise the compression to much even with the 2mm steel gasket just need some input befor i buy parts i dont need thanks guys

you arn't a newbie

stickie
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28068

you probably are just better of getting new OEM spec pistons from TOPLINE
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/impo...istons-toy.html
then using the 4agze headgasket

yeah i searched and read what you wrote about the pistons an i got a little confused ,you never said how thick of a gasket to use to get your compression back down so i thought i would ask

2mm is the max you really want to go...
the best solution is arais or wiseco custom pistons designed to lower the CR and OEM thickness...

but with proper tuning you could run a 10.XX:1 compression ratio with less boost to make the same power u would using a 8.5 or 9:1 compression ration

this is true ,and if i would use the 10:XX:1 ratio would i not gain a little more torque down low and a little fatter power band?

with the higher compression ratio, you would gain better off boost driveability. so yes down low you would get some help

raising compression and adding boost is a bad idea.

how is runing a low 10.x:1 or high 9.X:1 compression a bad idea?
many motors run high compression boosted noproblem.
hondas par example into the 11s and boosting in the teens and near 20psi completely fine
the 7th gen celica 11.5?cr and boosted fine

like i said if you can have proper tuning (which with a knowledgable tuner and a greddy ultimate) could probably be done.

some reading from MR2oc
Higher compression builds

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 12, 2007 - 11:11 PM

>
that is not so true any more , it just depends on how much boost you add, i want to get around 225hp out of my 7a ,so i could use about 15psi on a lower compression ratio, or if i run a higher compression ratio i would only have to run lets say 10 psi , and i could get my hp sooner, and as long as i use a strong head gasket and a good tune with my greddy unit i should be good, but correct me if i am wrong ,

This post has been edited by trd94: Feb 12, 2007 - 11:15 PM

well not just the headgasket
you would be able to use a thinner then 2mm headgasket (less chance of blowing)
but you would also need a higher octane gas (93octane)
and the correct ignition timing/fuel tuning (ems)

>
so than would a .5mm head gasket be better ,and i run 94 octane now as it is available around here, and i should be able to get the fuel and timing tuned with my emanage ,right

This post has been edited by trd94: Feb 12, 2007 - 11:26 PM

>


you cant compare 11s hondas to his car. you are talking about cars that run nothing but race gas, and have better tuning then just a piggy back. as nice as the emanage is, its still FAR from a standalone.

as far as 7th gens go, their community has had a very hard time coming up with a reliable turbo kit for the GT-S or even the GT. most of their guys have to fully rebuild the motor to run any kind of boost.

trd94, the higher the compression, the harder of a time you'll have trying to combat knock on pump gas. even just 10psi, is still a fair bit of boost and can cause a good bit of detonation.

why are you even thinking about opening up the motor? did something go wrong?

>
no nothing wrong ,she is running like a beast , but i just am thinking of pushing it a little more , my goal was 225-250hp every day , i just dont know if the stock bottom end is going to take ,and i have around 97,000 miles on her and it is time to change the timing belt ,i change it every 50-60,000 miles ,so i thought when i do this i would upgrade some that is all

lagos you do realize stock compression is like 9.5 on a 7afe i think
or its in the 9s...all that is required stock is 83 octane...
an Emanage with 94 octane @ a 10:1 CR should be obtainable with minor implications.
and actually those hondaz are on pump gas
**** add some H2o injection for knock control

@ .9bar doggy was making 206whp on an unopened motor
increasing the CR and tuned @ the same .9 bar it could probably see in the 220s
and some water injection maybe 230s

do we really know? no
is a higher then stock compression build possible? yes
will it take research and some trial & error? yes
does this mean we shouldn't try? no

I'll even donate the motor for 40$ to do it with

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 12, 2007 - 11:53 PM

>
ok well i got the $40 and i think it is possible does any one know what the pistons part # is and i do want the 4agze right , and i do have water injection to help with knock thanks lagos for the smurf piss idea and what mm should the head gasket be? yeah i dynoed mine at 12 psi and i hit 207hp on the stock insides ,also i am running a intercooler sprayer also like you suggested .

This post has been edited by trd94: Feb 12, 2007 - 11:56 PM

can you post your dyno sheets? that way, we would probably have a better idea of where to go next.

i just think you are looking at this all wrong. your motor already has a pretty high compression. your real bottle neck is probably in your head, turbo, or tuning. i just don't think you'll see the results you are looking for by swapping out your pistons.

probably in the head?
lol i think thats an understatement
the head IS the weakest link on the 7afe

>

so, why are you recommending bottom end work?

the weakest link in the 7afe or any NA motor is the stock ecu.

because 7afe pistons are right about even with the head..you're more likely to fry pistons and rings on a boosted 7afe then you are to fry a head?
its preventive maintenance + upgrading
put if you're going to be in there anyways you might as well spend the extra few on some headwork...which won't really gain you anything
the 7afe is a DOHC motor controlled by a single cam..that sux for adjustment. the cams themselves are of conservative nature
and on a nearly 100k mile motor i'd be more interested in pistons before i would the head (besides valveseals which i would do as well)

if you feel so inclined and have a little time, grab a book or research porting and polish online...you can do it at home with a dremel tool for a small cost which is strictly materials ie dremel attachments
all roads lead to rome it just depends which way you want to get there and how much you are willing to invest..

also to quote oobe
"7afe pistons are like powder"

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 13, 2007 - 12:59 AM

>

but when you raise the compression, your going to be more likely to get detonation that would in turn kill your ring, pistons, head gasket. the preventive maintenance could end up causing more problems.

you probably stand to gain more power by ditching the crude safc tune, and spending some of that money on a better ecu. then, if/when something breaks, go in there and upgrade it .

>
doggy DID NOT make 206whp
206HP.
10:1 compression ratio in a 7a, without a standalone, = boom.
end of discussion, dan.

>

ok wow hp whp whatever the orig. poster made 207hp
i'm pretty sure in my post it says "properly tuned" go back and read my posts when we first started talking about high compression
or is reading comprehension not part of 6gc criteria?
where did i say to try that compression ratio with an safc? yea i didn't
all my post clearly stated properly tuned...to yall ricers that should translate into higher level of engine management, dyno time and a tuner

also to note..he wouldn't be the 1st person to runa 10.X:1 compression ratio on 7afe in a 6gc using 4agze pistons...
>
tuned using a greddy emanage...
is it a boosted motor? no
is it a HIGHER then discussed CR? yes
is the motor working correctly? yes
with lower cr and a lil boost could it work if properly tuned? yes

and like i said i'm even willing to donate a full motor so he can do it...along with the research and data that i know about boosting and building the 7afe cause if you think i've posted everything i know about it your tripping yourself...
what have you offered? besides the restated?

end discussion,

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 13, 2007 - 9:32 AM

ok here is my plan, i am putting in a new timing belt ,(normal maint)and while i have it down i was looking at upgrading a little, the head i am sending in to a local shop to have new valve guides put in and a valve job also port & polished, to help with the flow a little , i want to upgrade the pistons and head gasket , my goal is to get 225-250 hp daily , as far as rods go i was thinking about getting them shot penned to make them a little stronger, i dont think a set of paurter rod would be needed for only 250hp ,the raised compression idea is interesting because it would give a little more down low for every day driving , i do have a water injection kit to help with knock and heat , also for the intercooler i have a sprayer kit to lower the intake temps to ,(maybe a little over kill but better safe than sorry ) now i will not be tuning this my self ,i will let a greddy shop in colombus do this as this is where i got my emanage unit along with the boost sensor ,ingnition harness , and injector harness , i got as much as i could get to tune this little project, also i read that jdm 7afe cams where a little more agressive, i have a set but i dont know if this is true ( we will find out ) as far as dyno sheets i will post them when i take it in to get done so i can share any info . now the pistons are just a idea and i would like to try it ,but before i do i will research the sh*t out of it , and talk to a few other tuners to get there input ,again i am not going to do this myself i love my car to much to see it just as a paper weight , so any input is great

This post has been edited by trd94: Feb 13, 2007 - 11:04 AM

Ya know.. maybe some people just like being "original" ... but I've been down the road of "original" and "under dog" bull****.. Oh ya lets take this heap of **** engine and try to make it something fantastic.. all we need to do is throw money at it... what did it get me? Shot piston rings and a worthless engine with fat cams and quad carbs that were impossible to tune.. not to mention a few thousand down the drain.

Think about the long run.. what will be easier to build, be more reliable with power and cheaper in the long run?

I seriously don't know why people try to put all of this 2000 dollar budget engineering into an engine hoping to make reliable every day power.

A 3S can be had for around 2K.. a full swap if you do it yourself would only come out to about 3500 tops.. with some new engine parts .. FMIC or what not.. exhaust etc... and you'll be making over 200whp reliably every single day. Then you have the option of making more power with fairly simple upgrades like the turbo.. go standalone ecu.. fuel upgrades.. you will be making a LOT more reliable power. You will also have less headaches of trying to figure stupid **** out.. and you will spend less money.

To do this little 7afe boosted **** you will need a standalone.. you will then need dyno time.. don't forget wideband o2.. don't forget aftermarket MAP sensor ... turbo.. custom manifold.. etc etc etc etc... Then you get to blow up the transmission or take a lot of life off of it.. unless you get a better trans.. oops there is more money.

best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

>
WOW!!!! get up on the wrong side of the bed did we? jk....... i would love to swap but it is just not legal to do and i dont need any of that trouble know if i had a 5gen then that is totaly what i would do as far as the trans goes i have a auto ( wait dont bash on it to hard) i have put in a better torque converter into it so i dont think it should be a problem, as far as spending money this is my hobbie i dont drink or smoke , no drugs ,so i spend any extra cash i can on building cars (legal street cars) i have a 3000gt i built up n/a to run a 13 sec 1/4 mi time ,and a civic with a d15 that is turboed every day driver that put down a decent 193hp to the wheels my celica has been turboed for about 20,000 miles and is running strong ,i just want a little more out of it , and i would like to learn what i can from doing this. a swap is kind of a no brainer ,no offence to any one that has a swap ,it is just most any one can do it

haha i like this guy!

>


It's not legal? You live in Ohio.. and from what I know about Ohio in most of the state there isn't even a required inspection... If you want to get that anal then putting a turbo on your honda isn't legal either.. it's not factory after all. Infact, anything you do on a car to modify the engine isn't "legal".

You're talking like you live in California.. hell there is a lot of guys in Cali with 3S swaps.. I didn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed either.. but if u want to assume that go ahead. I'm just trying to save you the time/hassle on that 7afe.. but if you are happy with getting mediocre horsepower than go for it. Your 7afte won't be legal either.

>
ok in ohio it is not illegal to swap out a motor but you have to use a motor that was offered int that model within the year(s) offered a 5th gen with a swap would be ok as the alltrack is offered but a 6th gen would not be because we were not offered the alltrack (or gt-4) a older swap would not pass any smog test or title inspection, and the do inspection in ohio it just varies where you live ,also if i sell the car with a swap i would be held reasponsable for removing the motor and replacing it with the right motor, also i would get fined ,as far as the turbo goes as long as it would pass smog test there is nothing they could do as they do not have a law in place that forbids bolt ons ,as long as you use approved stuff. and yes my civic did pass a sniffer test that i set up , my cousin is a state trooper just have to make sure you use a very good cat. yeah i could do a swap and then whin i go to any shows or get pulled over then i would have to worry about if the want to look under the hood or be a prick ,as it is now i have passed 2 inspections so i do worry about it a little ,it would be diferant if i drove a mustang or a vette , but since i dont and my car gets a lot of attention ,i tend to get pulled over alot and no i dont street race i am a little older than that

>

your kidding right? do you think any cop or inspection station has ANY clue as to what is in your car? they dont. your boosted 7afe is just as "illegal" as any motor swap would be.

but anyway, this thread isn't about a swap or any legal questions.
Player is feeding you incorrect information. raising your compression, on a motor that is already high comp, is a bad idea. sure you can say "as long as its properly tuned", but unless you have done some form of tuning in the past, you'll quickly realize that sometimes, its almost impossible to tune out knock on a motor like that.

now sure, someone can post a link to a honda, along with dyno sheets to prove that its been done, but just because it did ok on a dyno run, doesn't mean that car is still running problem free today.

>
your right this is not about what is legal or not , i dont think he is incorrect i just think no one has tried it i think 11:1 is a bit to high but i think some of the newer cars that are factory turboed might be running 10:1 i cant remember what one i was reading about right now off the top of my head. what about the older muscle cars that ran a 12:1 and super charged them of course the where running leaded fuel or alcohol so they were not street legal ,and i am not saying this would work for me