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Im sorry but how can you beleive in god who is this mysterious being that lives in heaven (a place you must die to get into) and not beleive that ghosts are real? Jesus rose from the dead and went and talked to his disiples right?. So a man just died and some how appears to his followers. idk sounds like a ghost to me

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There's plenty of things to suggest it. But your not going to hear it. Your just gonna say its being stretched to further my purpose. And I wasnt trying to convence you. I said thats your opinion that people cant use religion as a debating point. How can you as one person say you cant debate using religion? Just because you dont believe doenst mean others cant use things they believe it. Its just pointless for them to try to use them on you because your just gonna say whatever you want to say and block out anything they tell you because the Bible isnt a backing for anything in your mind.

Where is this proof that we're random mutations? Now your just making accusations becuase scientist can't prove that we mutated from another species. They tried to say the native people of New Zealand were the block between us and monkeys and that didnt pan out to anything.

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Ghost and souls are two different things. As someone said earlier they have no thought or recognation of anything. They're just in a state "trance" I guess. The whole thing with Jeus raising from the grave is because He was perfect and could not be held by the grave. Also says that the dead came out of the ground and sat on their tombs. But that doesnt mean they were ghost. Ghost are inbetween two different worlds. And no where in the Bible it says their is a between state; even though catholics believe in purgady?. That answer your question? Ghost live on earth and Christinaity teaches passed souls go to heaven or hell.

Random mutations have been witnessed, and recorded.

The Bible, a book that assumes the existence of god CANNOT be used to prove the existence of god. This is fundamental.

This thread needs to be locked it's just going to get worse from here.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Jun 18, 2008 - 10:11 AM

Can't we just agree to leave religion out of this conversation rather than lock the thread again? Both science and Christianity both claim Ghosts are fake anyway.

Stay on topic people, or this is gonna get shut down again.

Did you happen to miss my point about the unicorn? An explanation to the unexplainable?

I am a person of science and so everything I do (for a living) depends on my ability to believe in what I do (which is medicine). If I can't believe in how medicine works, then I can't willingly sell it in good conscience. Yet, many drugs work in ways we cannot understand yet. But it works. We can measure the results in terms of X amount of patients being healed and Y number of patients becoming worse. But after all is said and done, if a patient comes to me and asks me how this drug works, all I can answer is with a, "I don't know. I believe it works like this..." Eventually science will figure out why this drug works. But until it does, the power in which is works is still based solely on belief.

Now there have been numerous clinical trials where the power of faith has been tested to see if it can heal people of their ailments and disease. This refers back to my earlier reference of placebos. These trials were done in the same scientific manners as "real" drugs, with the results being recorded and analyzed in the same way. And the results show that, yes it works. People who have faith have been shown to heal better than people who did not have faith. Science backed up religion with the data (in these trials), but science could not explain it either.

It can be hard if not impossible for a religious person to reconcile his beliefs with profession (like me). But I have comes to terms with both because neither one can disprove the other. I understand your point of view (it's sort of like having a cynical view of the world, assume the worse until proven otherwise). I, on the other hand, see things more optimistically, assume the best until proven otherwise.

The unexplainable is often seen only as unexplainable in the eyes of science. Religion, the paranormal, the supernatural all try to offer an explanation (not proof!) to the unexplainable.


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Unicorn could be real... Suppose a horse and a deer got bussy, then the baby would have antlers... so if gene mixing made the baby not quite geniticaly stable it could make a unicorn. a horse with a horn.

What about a pegasis though? Eagle w/ a horse?

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jun 18, 2008 - 11:01 AM

Well, all I know and believe is there is a supreme being out there, no matter what it looks like, or what you people believe it looks like. Might be the father of Jesus, Buddha, etc. And also religion is a not a bad thing IMO. It actually helps us to be a better person. All these sacred writings are to rule and govern our faith and we are taught to believe in the wise dispensation which strengthens our faith and let lets us act as the right reason prompts us, cultivate harmony, practice charity and live in peace with all men. And ahmmm debates about religion is endless, just respect what others believe in to, they are not forcing you to believe in what they believe in anyway. Ghosts, goblins, monster, I don't believe though I know there's beasts on some of the members' cars here.

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Its kind of funny, because even if you listen to scientists talk (people who normally dont believe in religion), they believe that everything came from the singularity theory. Aka, a god.

Sometimes I stop and think how odd it is that we are on this planet, living our lives, with no clue as to how all this really came to be, and whats beyond our universe. Religion tries to explain it, but lets face it...all religion is man made. The truth is, we really dont know.

Singular doesn't mean omnipotent, omnipresent being, like god does.

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x2, i think about that alot. It bugs me though because i really want to know the answers.

look at this

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

those are all galaxies! all can possible harbor life. over 50,000 galaxies. this is a hubble telescope image. so some random guy did not make the picture.

haha just lookin at it leaves me in awe

Our understanding abt the universe is still very young, although we try hard to grasp whats happening around us but we can only explain so much. According to science the BigBang happened 4 billion yrs ago and we (as human) walk the earth for only some thousands of years, Im sure there are other beings outthere whos age (as a race) are well over millions of years, watching over us, studying our ways of life...

The Matrix anyone?

We're children in the deep end.

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Yeah, but thats religions take on it.
My point was that scientists and religion both agree that we came from ONE thing/person/god/whatever.
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
all is one.

I'm not here to debate it, to me there really isn't any debate, it's all subjective to your own experiences. But I will say I'm more w/Random's first post on this one - I've had experiences but for me, they're pretty personal and not something I'm going to just blast out to a bunch of people I don't know. I'll just go as far as to say I've had enough "weird" sh*t happen, starting at a very young age, and frequently enough that it's not weird any more. I've been able to verify stuff, validate stuff, whatever. It's been indisputable. All I know is whether it's God, religion, a giant omnipotent hairless cat. What ever, there's something out there.

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i gladly tell people the weird stuff that happens to me, but there was one experience that is just to personal for me to share with anyone but a my close friends

Dude - tell me you have a nymphomaniac female ghost living at your house who molests you every night - that's been a dream of mine for years and it would be nice to know such things exist

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WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS STUFF!?


Look, When things start getting to do with believe in ghosts people are automatically going to argue Gods existence because a lot of people believe that they are connected and in a lot of beliefs they are. I dont think anyone is (and if you are you need to calm the hell down because its not that serious) starting fights here, its just talking.

I have spent many years studying religion. The history and the mythology. And out of all of it the simple truth is that religion is man made. Proof of that is simply that God or whatever didnt come down and influence billions of people to come up with 100 different beliefs. If its man made, then how can it be real? If its really then why does it change? if it was fact then if would never change. You can say that people interpret it differently but then its no longer fact. Science has fact and theory. When its fact its proven. when its theory, its worked and studied till its fact. And has proof to back it up. Its not placed in a book, scroll, rock or whatever unless it has the proof behind it to back it up. Not that classic religious argument that is " well it just is real"

You can trace religion back to one person almost everytime. That one person could have been insane and wrote a religion down and because people were getting tired of what they had so far and liked what the other guy was saying it started a cult, then because it grow it because a religion. Their are homless people ive seen that swear the God talks to them. Why doesnt anyone listen to them? What makes them different the Christ? Why wouldnt God talk to them?

ok i say we get off of the religion thing. itll make some people upset and possibly get locked again haha. so how about some bigfoot talk now. we havent said much about that. Anyone have experiences with bigfoot?

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It happened in Ghostbusters I

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Well I saw this made for tv movie back when I was a preteen about a woman on Long Island who was molested nightly by a ghost - True story according to her and Hans Holzer. I also recently read a passage in one of his books concerning her case [Personally I can't stand his writing and if you ever do read his stuff skip the first chapter cause it's all about him and his amazing knowledge and abilities and blah blah blah...

yeah, i dislike self-proclaimed "Super" men. (meaning they have above average talents and they are better than you )

They piss me off b/c i'm a fcukin genus. j/k

Oh, and back on the topic of ghosts, In the 50's people would travel claiming they were "Ghost-hunters" of sorts, and said that ghosts were invisible, and the only way to see them was in the "magic" of photography. So (if any of you have taken photography in h/s you'll know what i'm talking about) they'd under expose pictures in their camera; usualy of civil war veterins or children; rewind the film, then take pictures of people's houses, and it would make that gastly, half taken picture of a veterin seem to be standing at attention behind people, or children jumping rope in the basement, ect. Then the people would make mental connections; ex: "Oh, my grandfather fought in the civil war, he must be protecting the house" or "My neice dyed when she was 8, she must be trying to stay close to family"

Then these "Ghost hunters" would charge a fortune to "Expel" the ghost; and using a new roll of film, they could "Confirm" the "ghosts" were gone.

Big ass money making hoax.

Just a though...

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jun 19, 2008 - 8:34 AM

The ghosthunter (TAPS) dont charge a dime to come in and investigate. They acctually go into the house tryin to disprove the supposive "haunting"

ah, but they get "Ratings"

The currency of television programs

On the Bigfoot topic - that's a big thing around here, too. I think it's kind of a big thing anywhere that's got heavily wooded rural areas. Oh wait, it's Sasquatch here.

Anyway, I have a hard time swallowing that one. It's fair to say my own beliefs are subjective to my own experiences though.

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First let me say I def believe in ghosts [I've seen one first hand] - but your statement above isn't very well thought out. Sure they don't charge the person - because of that person the network pay them to go "invistigate". The show is making money for the network by advertisement during the show. So you see - everyone is getting paid. It's not like they are doing this out of the kindness of their own hearts.
And personally I think that show is BS - it's like the man drama car tuner shows only with "ghosts".

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IDK griff, that one is believeable to me. Sure, it may not be some mystic creature; but it could be like a deformed giant retarted half man half bear thing; and its been called theese names for so many years. Just like the ambomible snow-man, i think theese things are bears... or half human/half bear's...

Sure there is a logical explination, but it's possible that one exists.

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If you dont know; dont ask me to explain it to you

I just dont see how its possible for a ceature like that to stay hidden in the US for so long without anyone shotting it, or getting a really good picture of it, or finding its cave or whatever. If this was like in the Rain Forest then i would totally be behind the idea. Hell, they are still finding new creatures in the Rain forest and all over South America. But in the States? i just dont think so.

Hey Sever how about we add this to your thread. Anyone believe that Zombies could happen?

2 words my friend

Biological warfare

EDIT: 2 words, not 3

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jun 20, 2008 - 4:34 PM