Found this - not sure if its already been found - but just thought I'd share.

Not sure how much different in extra HP if any from the OEM - but it looks nic. Price is expensive too.

Aftermarket Header

Fujitsubo 3SGE Beams Header

>


sorry 2bcelica but thats for the pre beams ss3, you can tell because the flange where it meets the head is very different, as the port spacing and shape is tottally different, as is the bolt pattern, its a real pita to find a manifold for the beams, i think the only one is the phoenix power unless you go custom. That fujitsubo manifold i think would fit any gen 3 3s-ge

>


darn it -

>

just wondering if you ment "thats not true, the gen 4 is not a gen3 type with variable cam timing"
I know what your saying, (its just not a gen 3 head painted red) yes it is differnet, but I think what they were simply trying to say was its similar to the 3gen but close up there are quite a few difference as you point out.

by all means post up pics really need more info on here, as there isn't too much floating around, (I can hopfully find the 3gen sizes etc to compare) one thing I really would like to know are the camshaft sizes (duration and lift)
and if you have any more info on the redtop beams ive missed please post it up


delusionz im not to sure, NA require it as this is how they make their power (which is why a 3gen can run up to +300deg cams)

Wonder if the GE would make a better head to swap to the GTE engine... and also give some low end torque back to the GE engine?

Or maybe just the intake camshafts?

This post has been edited by delusionz: Aug 16, 2009 - 3:51 AM

>


better off spending your money on your head, cams bigger valves etc.

>

yeah sorry i wasnt having a go at anyone, i'm really not like that its hard sometimes to not sound like that on a forum, i spend a lot of time correcting information about the beams There is of course many similarities between the gen3/4 as in the bucket setup etc

The head i have here is actually from a blacktop beams, but they are the same casting, the only difference being the blacktop has some extra machining done in a couple of spots one of which is the exhaust side vvti solenoid, and the other difference is the machining on the last cam journal on the intake side, both of which is just left undrilled on the redtop, maybe if someone has a gen 3 head we can compare the differences. The only other head i have here is a gen 2 3s-gte which maybe someone is interested in comparing, if so let me know.

Here is a link to some of the tuning parts available, those are the best cams you can get for the redtop, throw out any idea's of using cams similar to those used in the gen3 or other 3s engines as the vvti makes for a very different animal, and you cant use blacktop cams.
http://www.beams-redtop.com/redmods.htm

Gen 4 3S-GE (Redtop) :
Power - 200ps (197bhp) @ 7000rpm
Torque - 21kg-m (152ft.lb) @ 6000rpm
compression ratio - 11:1
Cam duration (IN/EX) - 256°/244° ( timing is -2~43/78~33 thats the vvti range)
Cam lift (IN/EX) - 10.5mm/9.2mm (53/11)
Valve diameter (IN/EX) - 34.5mm/29.5mm
Throttle body diameter - 65mm
Injector size - 340cc (going by the book, flow testing puts them at 315cc)
Notes - VVTI

top of the head - i think overall it is a lot narrower because of the valve angle.


Intake side.


Exhaust side.


Underside.


another shot of the underside, the combustion chambers are about 20cc smaller than those of the previous gens


if you want more pics let me know, the rest of the head is sitting in a box.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 16, 2009 - 6:35 PM

>
nah your alright, I know what you mean when you say stuff, the way people interpret what peple say can be different on a forum.

>
awesome thanks for the specs I was missing, I'll add those to previous info so we dont confuse anyone.

>
only a slight increase between them, but that would explain the 19BHP difference



http://www.trdparts.jp/english/parts_engine-3s-ge.html
that one off hole (oil hole) inbetween cylinder 1 & 2 is for controling vvti right on the blacktop? same on the redtop or is it that extra machinering your talking about?

>

thats there on both, i assume on the blacktop it just feeds both solenoids, whilst on the redtop just feeds the one. The extra machining i'll highlight on those pics at some point but busy at work right now!

yea i thought it'll be the same. right onto the tuff question how many degrees does it advance & retard(on blacktop)?

>

BTW this is a blacktop beams engine from the Altezza

not useful information

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 26, 2024 - 4:44 AM

awesome, we have some good info coming in. I hope this becomes a good database of info for people

Compression Test proof from JDM Online, Seems to be pretty good, 2nd cylinder was up at 200psi. other wise all others were at 195

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Toyota-...sQ5fAccessories

Gear Ratios for JDM S54:

3.285 * 4.176 = 2027.5 - 37 mph
1.960 * 4.176 = 1209.7 - 62 mph
1.322 * 4.176 = 815.9 - 91 mph
1.028 * 4.176 = 634.5 - 118 mph
0.820 * 4.176 = 506.1 - 147 mph
Final Drive = 4.176

Compression pressure for 3sge Beams Redtop:

Reference level 1.37Mpa converted to psi is 198.7 max across all 4 cylinder for compression test
Limit 1.08Mpa converted to psi is 146.4

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 6, 2013 - 1:10 PM

pointless post mods please delete if possible

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 26, 2014 - 1:50 AM

It says

Compatibility Info
Toyota Celica ST202 (10/93-09/99) Eng: 3S-GE

AND

The Fujitsubo Super EX Header is compatible with the following vehicles, please confirm before purchasing:

-ST202 Celica SS-II (5/93 ~ 6/96)

-ST202 Celica SS-III (5/93 ~ 6/96)

I wonder would RHD be able to confirm?

pointless post

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 6, 2013 - 1:28 PM

they dont, i have seen a thread in MR2 that compares a beams bolt pattern with the 3rd gen 3sge and they mismatch...

Nope they dont.


-"BonzaiCelica"+
The same height? Thats not what you look at, if your looking at buying some extractors. its the bolt pattern/spacing of the exhaust ports which is the most important part, as njccmd2002 pointed out. As you would remember the 4th Gen 3S-GE BEAMS engines (redtop, blacktop) are a completely different cast to that of the 3rd Gen 3S-GE.

>
sorry, but the info is not correct, it may have been added 10 years ago. also note: No one who owns this part has contributed their thoughts regarding this part yet.

just thought I'd add their website in here, for further info.
Fujitsubo's website: 3S-GE extrators

-ST202 Celica SS-II (5/93 ~ 6/96)

-ST202 Celica SS-III (5/93 ~ 6/96)

Those details that RHDJapan and Tony-B added speak for themselves. Does not fit the redtop.



can I ask what is wrong with the Factory extractors? Because your wanting to spend about US$850 for 1.1KW? The factory extractor type manifolds fitted the 3S-GE and BEAMS 3S-GE are very good. Toyota put some effort into the design and flow of these.

I think your better off putting your money towards your BEAMS engine.

yes you make a good point Rusty and I know you are right. Well I want an all stainless steel exhaust system. A custom made stainless steel header will make it sounds nicer, perform a little better, and it looks much nicer in the engine bay. those are the 3 reasons why I want to make one.

go custom.... build one from scratch..

go custom.... build one from scratch..

I think Rusty has a point, maybe more gains to be had by free-ing up further down the exhaust system. I think i remember Edophus saying before about tidying up little burrs in the entrance to his manny, so maybe a little polishing?

I haven't been under my car in a bit but i think i remember a box after the cat.

Maybe minus those two could make a difference?

I wish i had a quality ECU tho.

T

>

rusty is right, there isnt a lot wrong with the stock extractors, the dimensions may be quite tight but they are fine for a near stock cam, the problem is and this is typical toyota the ingredients are right, the execution not so, the welds tend to be tack welds on the outside and welded on the inside, if you reweld the manifold so the welds are on the outside of the pipe, take a dremel and grind out the garbage on the inside of the pipe, so far i've found the manifolds to be really sloppy here, the design is fundementally fine, but the execution is poor. This isnt a power adder as such but will free up the engine at high revs, we found this on the beams and its also true of the newer 2zz engines where usually a ported stock manifold is better than the aftermarket ones.

To make it complicated It is worth leaving a step though at the bottom of the manifold floor where the manifold meets the head, you dont want it exact you want the pipe to be slightly bigger at the floor so there is a step down leaving the head, this helps to break up reversion pulses and does no harm to the exhaust flow.

OK I'll take all these facts and suggestions into consideration, it'll just come down to money in the end if I'm saving as much money as possible on the swap. Also on another note would you guys powder coat the header or leave it to dissipate heat into the engine bay on its on. from previous experience of not heat wrapping my ebay header the temp gauge meter runs at half way point when you let the car idle and once the fans turns on the needle drops back down to a little under the halfway point.

I seriously doubt powder coating is able to withstand the heat from the extractors bonzai.

I'd suggest spraying them with vht(very high temperature) exhaust/header spray and then you can add some exhaust wrap (white or black) would look tidy, and should not fade etc. Should work quite well, in keeping the the engine bay temperatures down, and increase exhuast flow.

or get them coated HPC

This post has been edited by TRDGT4: Oct 7, 2010 - 9:30 PM

vht high temp paint dont work. it flaked on mine. that exhaust is hawt...

Over the past couple of months I have been searching for more information about the 3S-GE motors. I've found some info regarding the powerdeck spacer and making a custom intake manifold, ACIS plus turbo which I'm going to add later.

I came across on Celica-Club UK, a dyno graph which show the results 'before and after' of the powerdeck spacer, and has also come back into discussion over there recently, so I thought I might aswell post it up here swell.

"there was 5 months between dyno's

before
180 bhp @ 7300
135.7 lbft @ 4988
after
181.9 bhp @ 7139
135.8 lbft @ 4733"

hmm wow 2 hp. that's like a air intake. So a total of 4 hp with a combined short ram intake.