do a quick search- most people check for LSD by rotating axles/wheels or by visual check through the hole.

No bar? LSD
Bar? no LSD

This was pretty much what I believed to be the case 100%. but, now maybe the VC LSD are bar???!

>


Thats exactly what I thought when comparing the two on my bench and thats what the importer told me as well. He had 3 other beams there when I picked up my engine and I checked every one of them and they all had bars. I would really like to figure out this mystery as I would love to have another one.

Has anyone welded the spider together in the stock tranny? Thats the poor mans LSD. Zero slip and on the dirt they last longer than the pavement.

This post has been edited by turnip: Nov 9, 2009 - 10:04 PM

Seems like SW20 MR2 had an exception to this rule.

Other 'interesting' quotes from today's emails / research:

"The SW20 LSDs have a bar also. We checked this one and it spins like a LSD." (in reference to BEAMS for sale)

"Physically check as in putting the axle and turning one axle and the other side turn. The axle hole has a bar/slab metal, if there is non, its either a viscous lsd or aftermarket. The swap is from a SS-III"


^^ So.. yeah, dunno.. lol.. but hopefully will know before purchase, eh?

more : http://www.mr2.com/forums/turbo-3s-gte/Toy...tification.html

>



more: http://www.toymods.net//forums/showthread.php?t=8949

>

CONTRADICTS - >



That last is possibly the most important. ^^

This post has been edited by illtuned: Nov 9, 2009 - 10:19 PM

I'm soo confused...

Afaik spinning the wheels is not an accurate test for LSD.

+ Helical LSD locks under deceleration, Viscous does not?

I remember when my GT4 was on the belly lifter and I turned the rear right wheel by hand and only the rear left spun and the front left spun.

Whats the difference between Helical and Torsen? ST205 is said to have torsen rear and central viscous, nothing up front.

I know there's nothing upfront because I'm told I need gearbox fluid WITHOUT friction modifier for lsd.

>

I agree with you.
>

As did the ST185RC. All ST185 models had center Viscous Coupling and optional equipment Torsen Rear.

>

Correct. There was a LSD option for up front, but it was mega expensive and aftermarket only.

S54 Open Diff
In the second picture thats light as you can see completely thru the open tranny.



This post has been edited by turnip: Nov 10, 2009 - 1:58 PM

Well i have a complete engine and tranny from an 1998 jdm non-beams blmzf 6gen celica.
I'm pretty sure that it has an lsd tranny (s54-06d) with it but i can't decide that it's a viscous or it's a helical lsd.
I have an st182 and i bought this engine just for backup. It happened that my original st182 tranny gave up (bearing sound) so i decided just to use the tranny from the st202 engine (my original st182 3s-ge is working flawlessly).
The LSD is there i'm sure about it, the wheel spinning (full throttle in first gear and steering full left and right) test is indicating this, although the cornering behaviour is totally different from the original st182 gearbox so the LSD is definitely there. What i can not figure out is the type of the LSD. Helical or Viscous ? I wants to know it just because of the oil type, i want to use the best oil for the gearbox.
Could you help me out at this ?

This post has been edited by Levus: Nov 12, 2009 - 4:38 PM

I'd say Viscous for a non BEAMS LSD, though if its somewhat like a RWD diff/LSD the Viscous part is sealed off. And to tighen up a Viscous LSD, you'll need shims (look like big washers)

Definitely viscous on the 95-97 E-ST202-BLMZF (SS-III).

I don't have information on the oil weight/ GL grade for the ST202's other than it should have an LSD friction modifier for the S54-06D.

Mechanical LSD for ST202 (atleast in those pre-beams years) is a TRD upgrade, Not standard.

----------------------

Definitely an LSD in the SS-III post 97 (aka Beams SS-III.), We still don't know if it's mechanical.

I assume that redtopbeams website you guys use is US. based? I wouldn't trust everything they say.

In the case of SS-II BEAMS and BEAMS SS-II/SS-III autos is where its uncertain of LSD (yes/no and type).

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1996_TOYO...BLMZF_4301.html

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLMZF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑20190 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1
41301‑20230 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1 $1,766.16
41301‑32060 ST202, 203..MTM 1 $512.72

Same part numbers.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1996_TOYO...BLMVF_4301.html

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLMVF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑32060 ST202, 203..MTM 1 $512.72
41301‑32060 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2) 1 $512.72
41301‑32061 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2) 1 $649.15

Same part numbers.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLPZF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑20112 ST202..ATM..(CV, SS2, SS3) 1 $649.15
41301‑20112 ST202..ATM..(SS2, SS3) 1 $649.15
41301‑32071 ST202, 203..ATM 1 $644.95

No mention of LSD.

Guess we're settled now? All Manual SS-III have Viscous LSD
No SS-II has has LSD at all. (With the exception of 1995 Superstrut Equipped SS-II which is essentially SS-III before the trim level was introduced in 1996)
No Automatic ST202 has LSD.

....yeah thought it seems suspicious that all the SS-I SS-II & SS-III had all different end codes to S54: -02A / -06A / -06D except when the SS-III changed to BEAMS SS-III...still had the same number, but apperently changed to a different LSD, a Helical LSD. (would have made sense to change the number)

also on TRD parts

LSD's
ST202･203･206･207 (94.2-98.7) Except below model
ST202･203･206･207 (93.10-95.8) Superstrut suspension model equipped with viscous L.S.D.
no talk of a standard helical LSD either (however only goes to 95)

hmm i think im lost lets get these facts stickied on the 3sge engines post.

I have a question about making the 5th gear longer on the ss-III s54 tranny.

Would you have to use a s51 5th gear or the e56 5th gear? how about a longer final drive??

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Dec 9, 2009 - 12:25 AM

So can anyone find the answer to my question or the post that was talking about s54 tranny. I already tried searching for that post, but I couldnt find anything.

...............S54...... E56........ E154 (GT4)
Reverse -3.153... -3.583..... -3.545
1st........ 3.285..... 3.538 ..... 3.380
2nd ....... 1.960 .... 2.045 .... 1.910
3rd........ 1.322 .....1.333...... 1.260
4th........ 1.028..... 1.028...... 0.920
5th........ 0.820..... 0.820...... 0.730
Final Drive 3.944.... 3.944...... 4.290

255 km/h with the S54
261 km/h with the E56
269 km/h with the E154
^ I hope I've got those right

hi guys, all ss-III's have an LSD, from 93.10-95.8 have an e56 transmission with viscous lsd. From that point on the ss-III's have an s54 with helical LSD.

ss-II's may have them as it was an option, so different to what some people think a beams engine does not always come with an lsd, only if it is from an ss-III is there any guarentee. Had a freind who got stung by the seller claiming the box was from a beams car so had an lsd, i did warn him its a gamble and in the end he took the chance but sadly it had no lsd .

I think the helical lsd is the same as the lsd used by the zzw30 mr2 spyder, not sure its exactly the same part but they are compatible with the s54 iirc but would need to confirm.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Dec 11, 2009 - 5:49 AM

hey edophus ever get that confirmed whether zzw30 lsd can be fitted into the s54 tranny??

So the 1996 SS-III with the 3rd Gen 3S-GE also has a Helical LSD being that it also had the S54-06D?

What was the E56 axel code?

And any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota Levin/Trueno GT-Apex Silvertop 4A-GE 5 speed and BZ-R Blacktop 4A-GE 6 speed models?

Also do you have any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota MR2 Turbo models with the 3S-GTE E153 gearbox?

>

the LSD on supercharged corolla / levin / trueno is interchangeable along all E series transmission,

the Levin supercharged comes iwth a E58 ( LSD ) transmission, this LSD can be installed in E56 ( same tranny non LSD ) and E153 found in MR2 turbo, Camry V6, Solara V6, ES300. << This is veriofied information and I have both trannies apart in case pictures are needed, internally these trannies are identical, except for the differences in years with some having dual synchros and better oil system. the Stock OEM LSD for these transmission was always viscous, in some countries there was a TRD dealer option, pre 1993 this option was hellical LSD, after 93 the options were hellical andclutch type ( usually used only on mr2s )

if the LSD is hellical you'll see a small ( ~ 5mm wide ) hole when looking insdie the transmission axle area, if the hole is rather large ( ~ 10mm ) is non LSD ) for clutch type, you'll be able to see the clutch discs. and OEM Viscous is easy to identyfy, you'll see the bar and a gear right before the bar, I'll try to get a picture of this.


I have heard that this is also true for s54 transmissions, the diff found on MR-S, Levin non supercharged and aftermakrget LSD made for either of these cars can be used on the s54 transmission but I have not personal experience with this fact.

E56-04C is the full code delusionz

>
i have heard this as well.
apparently there is a guy over on mr2oc that has used the mr-s lsd diff in the s54 tranny.

oOOOOHHHHH ok now I get it.

All SS-III celica's that came with 3rd gen or 4th gen 3S-GE engines came with torsen/helical LSD,

All SS-II that came with 4th gen 3S-GE Redtop is unconfirmed as to what kind of LSD it has, if any...

Okay so the Supercharged Corolla / Levin / Trueno engine is the 4A-GZE from the model GT-Z which we know also uses an E series transmission, being the stronger type to hold the torque from a forced induction motor.. I was asking about the NA versions which are also Superstrut/LSD equipped namely GT-Apex and BZ-R which use C series transmissions. Are these Viscous or Helical and are they compatible with the S series and E series Gearboxes? Also wouldn't hurt to know about the Supercharged's E58 trans while we're at it.

I agree we should get a sticky on these gear boxes, their gearbox codes, axel codes, what year and models they came from, what type of LSD they are and if they are compatible with our gearboxes, and if the gearboxes are compatible with our engines, etc.

>

the differential is not interchangeable between E series and S series transmissions, as for C series to S series it seems that they are pretty different, the part numbers of same year ( 1995 ) celica and levin are different which suggest the actual part is different.

the only diff that will fit in the S54 is the MR-S, LSD are mostly Viscous, with some OEM hellical in early productions ( pre 90s ) once hte viscous techonology was proven that became the standard on all LSD transmission with the option of hellical or clutch type through TRD.

I have a lot pf pictures where you can see the differences of HEllical, Viscous, and CLutch type when looking at the transmission, but I have no time right now to post them. maybe later I will get some time to post all that, their application and proven fitment list.

Ok that would be awesome, On a different thread we got some information from Edophus which suggests the 1994 and 1995 JDM Celica with 3S-GE/Superstrut (Rare models under the SS-II submodel with a differing chassis number) had an E56 with Viscous, and from 1996 onwards the JDM Celica with 3S-GE/Superstrut (SS-III only) has an S54 with Helical LSD -- One that is similar in mechanical design to the ST205 rear diff.

And the parts database at TRDparts seems to support this theory if you read it the same way he does -- being that there are two different TRD 1.5-way replacements for both FWD Celicas equipped with Viscous and Helical.

agree so if we can get all the transmission codes here in one place first, making sure they are correct. (maybe make a new topic and linking back to here for the discussion?) then I can finish the engine and transmission sticky thread. yay!

JDM Celicas
I dont know about the ST203 (4WS model) or the SS-II Convertible

>>SS-I>>
SS-I 1994-1999
S54-04A

SS-I ST203 4WS
(UNKNOWN)

>>SS-II>>
SS-II (1994-1997)
S54-06A LSD type: none

SS-II Convertible
S54-06A LSD type: none (unconfirmed)

SS-II Superstrut edition (1994-1995)
E56-07C LSD type: Viscious

SS-II >>BEAMS>> (1997-1999)
S54-06A LSD type: none as far as we know


>>SS-III>>
SS-III Superstrut (1995-1997)
S54-06D LSD type: Helical

SS-III Superstrut >>BEAMS>> (1997-1999)
S54-06D LSD type: Helical

>>GT-Four>>
GT-Four 1994-1999
E154F- 08B

GT-Four WRC

>>TRD>>
TRD Mechanical LSD I
To fit all ST202･203･206･207 (S54-###) 1994-1999 Superstrut or McPhearson strut. Factory equiped with a Helical lsd or no lsd.
41301-ST804

TRD Mechanical LSD II
To fit all ST202･203･206･207 (E56-04C/###) 1994-1995 Superstrut Factory equiped with a Viscious lsd only.
41301-ST000 >>Discontinued>>


USDM
ST

GT



how does that look so far easy to understand? Definitely add those tranny's/LSD that we can swap over. do we want to add the auto's? keep adding guys

This post has been edited by Rusty: Mar 12, 2012 - 1:04 AM