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4A-GE 20V + 6Speed + 1.8l displacement - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #70123 69 posts Started by Demios
Demios
#31
>
QUOTE (delusionz @ Oct 22, 2009 - 12:49 PM) *
>Scream yes, Go fast -- Thats subjective. Fast to ST owners, Slow to GT & GT4 owners.


that's enought...cuz i will spend max 1.000€ to do everything and i'll have a 160bhp car that makes me spend surelly less everytime i take a ride than a 300+bhp tuned 3S-GE...
that's a swap for a daily...can u use a 300+bhp Celica GT-4 everyday? If u can, why don't u buy a porsche?XD
delusionz
#32
My GT4 is my daily driver, I don't use 300bhp every day but I sure as hell don't have to bounce off an 8000 rev limiter just to get 160BHP.

A GT4 can drive just as tame as a regular Celica when you don't need the power, and when you ask for power, it delivers a little more than a "niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii."

Could I use 300BHP on the street? Hell yes it's handy for overtaking and it can be fun on windy twisty roads, mountain ranges, etc.
Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs
Demios
#33
i cant afford that...so a 4A-GE to me its fine...so please, stop saying just a 3S-GTE or a RB28DETT, or a VQ37DE will be better...surely that will be faster...but i cant afford it...
nik
#34
>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 22, 2009 - 3:49 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (nik @ Oct 19, 2009 - 10:10 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 19, 2009 - 9:27 AM) *
>Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed


i personally dont think the 6speed is anything special it would be ok in an 7age n/a form

cost wise / part wise i would just go with the 5 speed C56

C56
A 5-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars.

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250 4.312

Applications:

Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Starlet Glanza V
Toyota AE101 Levin/Trueno (Later Years only)
Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (mid-engine application)


C160
A 6-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars including an optional limited slip differential. Transmission with identification code ending with 12C are LSD equipped. Code ending with 12A are non-LSD. LSD options were not available in the Wagons (ae101 corolla and ae111 carib)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final
3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

Applications:

Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota AE101 Corolla Wagon (1997 onwards (BZ models only)
Toyota AE111 Carib
Toyota AE111 Corolla GT

Why do u think this? for an high rev engine its a good thing...and as u can see with shorter ratios for 1st-5th gear it works fine for fun, and a longer 6th gear than the 5th can provide a better economy race XD in italy gasoline is 1.30/40€/l that are almost 2$/l...have a tune up that provides more fun to run and higher km/l in econo it's a must...thats why swap a 3S-GE or easily turbo a 7A-FE will result in loose the car in the garage, and take a ride once a year...







if your on a budget just bolt the 4ag 20v to your c56 yes it works its been done
that way you dont spend any money on axels etc
yes the 6 speed probably gets better mpg but not by much

AGAIN if your on a buget
1. buy a 20v
2. install it to the 5 speed already in the car
3. wire in new harness
4. drive the car

cheapest way for a 20v in a celica
yea your 3sgte is cool but ill stick to my 7agte
Kiamycelica
#35
>
QUOTE (soulshadow @ Oct 20, 2009 - 1:39 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (delusionz @ Oct 19, 2009 - 9:01 PM) *
>4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.


X2 thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif

Its like putting a 4 cylinder in a semi truck.



Our celicas are light as ****? about 500lbs lighter than preludes and accords. Were right there with civics.
richee3
#36
>
QUOTE (delusionz @ Oct 22, 2009 - 7:05 AM) *
>A GT4 can drive just as tame as a regular Celica when you don't need the power, and when you ask for power, it delivers a little more than a "niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii."



laugh.gif
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
terbear4god4life
#37
>
QUOTE (Kiamycelica @ Oct 23, 2009 - 11:34 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (soulshadow @ Oct 20, 2009 - 1:39 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (delusionz @ Oct 19, 2009 - 9:01 PM) *
>4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.


X2 thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif

Its like putting a 4 cylinder in a semi truck.



Our celicas are light as ****? about 500lbs lighter than preludes and accords. Were right there with civics.



my celi weighs 2800=[
"she can polish my strut bar anytime As long as her blow-off valve's in good order"
SwissFerdi
#38
I'd really like to know how the number was obtained...but mine weighs 2409. I don't know where you guys get 2800 from. confused.gif

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 24, 2009 - 12:24 PM
'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
Stambo
#39
>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 22, 2009 - 9:42 AM) *
>i cant afford that...so a 4A-GE to me its fine...so please, stop saying just a 3S-GTE or a RB28DETT, or a VQ37DE will be better...surely that will be faster...but i cant afford it...


I feel exactly the same, Plus i'm sure you just wanna swap it and have fun doing it. Sure it's not super fast, but as long as you have fun swapping it, and learning thats all that matters. Plus you'll have ITBs smile.gif

2nd Gen 3s-gte.... It lives!97celiman"92-gt-quit making up random acronyms that dont mean anything. the only real acronym is JDM"
97lestyousay
#40
>
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Oct 24, 2009 - 10:24 AM) *
>I'd really like to know how the number was obtained...but mine weighs 2409. I don't know where you guys get 2800 from. confused.gif



I don't either, this is a page from the 97 brochure.

JDM guy made me do it.
richee3
#41
^^^ GT Liftback: 2,580/2,640. That's dry weight. Add in all the fluids, and the weight goes up. Mine, with 3/4 of a tank of gas and my at 160 lbs, weighs 2,840. I had it weighed one day, that's how I know.

Back on topic for the thread, if the op isn't pulling a 5S out of the car but a 7A instead, the the 4A is the perfect candidate. I'm not sure about the whole 1.8 liter thing, not suer how that'll work out, but a 4A would be a drastic improvement. And with the 5S rated at 135 bhp, the 4A seems like an improvement over that to. Sheer numbers say so, anyway. I won't comment on the street driveability, since I've never driven anything with a 4A. The 4A is certainly lighter than the 5S, at any rate.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
97lestyousay
#42
>
QUOTE (nik @ Oct 22, 2009 - 10:21 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 22, 2009 - 3:49 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (nik @ Oct 19, 2009 - 10:10 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 19, 2009 - 9:27 AM) *
>Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed


i personally dont think the 6speed is anything special it would be ok in an 7age n/a form

cost wise / part wise i would just go with the 5 speed C56

C56
A 5-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars.

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250 4.312

Applications:

Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Starlet Glanza V
Toyota AE101 Levin/Trueno (Later Years only)
Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (mid-engine application)


C160
A 6-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars including an optional limited slip differential. Transmission with identification code ending with 12C are LSD equipped. Code ending with 12A are non-LSD. LSD options were not available in the Wagons (ae101 corolla and ae111 carib)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final
3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

Applications:

Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota AE101 Corolla Wagon (1997 onwards (BZ models only)
Toyota AE111 Carib
Toyota AE111 Corolla GT

Why do u think this? for an high rev engine its a good thing...and as u can see with shorter ratios for 1st-5th gear it works fine for fun, and a longer 6th gear than the 5th can provide a better economy race XD in italy gasoline is 1.30/40€/l that are almost 2$/l...have a tune up that provides more fun to run and higher km/l in econo it's a must...thats why swap a 3S-GE or easily turbo a 7A-FE will result in loose the car in the garage, and take a ride once a year...







if your on a budget just bolt the 4ag 20v to your c56 yes it works its been done
that way you dont spend any money on axels etc
yes the 6 speed probably gets better mpg but not by much

AGAIN if your on a buget
1. buy a 20v
2. install it to the 5 speed already in the car
3. wire in new harness
4. drive the car

cheapest way for a 20v in a celica


The 6g celica has a c52 and the gear ratios are going to be different than a 4age c52.
The 4a has more torque than the 7a but it is at higher rpm. The gear ratios for the 4a are
going to suit that engine better than the 7afe celica's will. It will work, Coomer replaced his
with a celica c52. The top speed should be higher but it is going to be sluggish lowin the rpm range.


C52 North American AE102 version 93-97 Corolla 7AFE
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: .969
5th: .815
final drive: 3.722

C52 88-91 AE92 4AGE
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: 0.969
5th: 0.815
Final: 4.312

JDM guy made me do it.
soulshadow
#43
You know if you gutted everything in the Celi it would be way less than 2850 lbs and if you ditched your AC compresser and your Power steering pump there goes another at least 50 lbs. Don't forget if you just cut the top portion of your car off and ditched that roof you would prob lose a heck of a lot of weight along with that trunk/ hood. AND if you lost that gut of yours and actually got in shape you would prob lose up to 50 lbs off of your celi when your driving it.

I think I'll just start cutting off the roof for now.



TiGZ461
#44
GT-S specifications

* Chassis Code: AE86 (AE88 in USDM)
* Horsepower: 112 hp (84 kW) @ 6600 rpm* Torque: 97 ft·lbf (132 N·m) @ 4800 rpm*
* Weight: approximately 2200 lb (998 kg) to 2400 lb (1089 kg)
* Engine: 4AGE, 1587 cc
* Engine Type: DOHC 16-valve Inline-4 AFM Multiport Fuel Injection w/T-VIS
* Transmission: T50, 8-bolt flywheel
* Injector Size: approx. 180 cc, low impedance
* Compression: 9.4:1
* Differential: 6.7" Open (T282) or optional LSD (USA Only) (T283) with 4.30:1 Ratio, 2-pinion
* Wheels/Tires: 14x5.5" +27 mm Offset Rims with 185/60-14 82H Tires (195/60-14 85H for 86+ models)
* First 7 Digits of VIN: JT2AE88


Is the weight that much of a big deal ??? A ST as said with dry weight weighs in at about 2,395 to 2,495 and as shown above, the Celica really isn't as heavy as you say compared to the AE86's weight, why won't this swap be useful again?
1996 Toyota Celica ST 25th Anni. Edition #461
Stambo
#45
because everyone will say the 3sgte is better, which it is, but it always isn't in everyones budget.
2nd Gen 3s-gte.... It lives!97celiman"92-gt-quit making up random acronyms that dont mean anything. the only real acronym is JDM"
Demios
#46
The 7A-FE Celica is not that heavy...In opposition its strenght is the lightness...it is almost 300 kgs lighter than a BMW 316i E46 Coupe with 11 bhp more (105 for the BMW that is 1.895 cc)

I cant see why a 4A-GE CANT work on it...it will fit the car perfectly keeping the car light...300+ bhp on a FWD are too much...i'd like more 160 bhp ready to use everytime...and i dont like to go fast only between the corners...
TiGZ461
#47
Same^


Would be cool to have 300whp+ but really some of us ain't cut of to have a 3sgte in our bay. Not everyone can go out and spend $3k+ at once.
I'm planning to take this route with my ST, a 4agze will be more then perfect for me. And if I really need more power down the line, I wont mind building the whole engine.
1996 Toyota Celica ST 25th Anni. Edition #461
Promasta
#48
>
QUOTE (richee3 @ Oct 24, 2009 - 8:39 PM) *
>^^^ GT Liftback: 2,580/2,640. That's dry weight. Add in all the fluids, and the weight goes up. Mine, with 3/4 of a tank of gas and my at 160 lbs, weighs 2,840. I had it weighed one day, that's how I know.


no, that 2580 for gt liftback is CURB WEIGHT, not dry weight.
TiGZ461
#49
delusionz any info on the weight matter I stated above? I want to know your input on this. I know Corrolla RWD, Celica FWD but you stated that the reason the 4AGE it wouldn't do any good was due to the weight of the 6g. So if you could please reply back to this, I don't mean to call you out, just wanna know why it's such a big issue. Celica ST and Corrolla are about the same exact weight.
1996 Toyota Celica ST 25th Anni. Edition #461
Demios
#50
I will repeat it for the last time and I hope everyone undertand...

This topic is not about the Celica with the 4A-GE and how much its go fast, this is about swapping a 4A-GE into a Celica, convert it to 7A-GE (or 1.8l stroke kit, as u wish) and the 6 speed gearbox. Everything else is OT
nik
#51
here are a couple pics of my 7agte before the mani and turbo were bolted on









yea your 3sgte is cool but ill stick to my 7agte
richee3
#52
>
QUOTE (Promasta @ Oct 26, 2009 - 5:24 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (richee3 @ Oct 24, 2009 - 8:39 PM) *
>^^^ GT Liftback: 2,580/2,640. That's dry weight. Add in all the fluids, and the weight goes up. Mine, with 3/4 of a tank of gas and my at 160 lbs, weighs 2,840. I had it weighed one day, that's how I know.


no, that 2580 for gt liftback is CURB WEIGHT, not dry weight.


Sweet. I like that even more. Means I'm a total fatty laugh.gif

I think this thread is really beating a dead horse. Nobody is saying that a 4A CAN'T work in a Celica. It's just saying that the 7A has more low end power, the 4A is more high end power. If you want a 4A in your car, swap it in. If not, then don't swap it. It's as easy as that.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
97lestyousay
#53
>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 28, 2009 - 1:33 PM) *
>I will repeat it for the last time and I hope everyone undertand...

This topic is not about the Celica with the 4A-GE and how much its go fast, this is about swapping a 4A-GE into a Celica, convert it to 7A-GE (or 1.8l stroke kit, as u wish) and the 6 speed gearbox. Everything else is OT


If you are making a 7age you won't be swapping in a 4age as the lower end is 7a.
The 4a head and a few other items are needed.
Here is some info.
7age/5age info
I wouldn't bother with a six speed the celi c52 should work fine as Nik said earlier.
JDM guy made me do it.
TiGZ461
#54
nik did you ever try the 7a -ge in its stock form with no mods? Just wondering how much it puts down and if theres a big difference. Seems pretty neat, the more I read into it, and see how it looks the more I want it. Thats the head off a 4agze right? Did you keep the sc?
1996 Toyota Celica ST 25th Anni. Edition #461
Demios
#55
>
QUOTE (97lestyousay @ Oct 29, 2009 - 6:48 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (Demios @ Oct 28, 2009 - 1:33 PM) *
>I will repeat it for the last time and I hope everyone undertand...

This topic is not about the Celica with the 4A-GE and how much its go fast, this is about swapping a 4A-GE into a Celica, convert it to 7A-GE (or 1.8l stroke kit, as u wish) and the 6 speed gearbox. Everything else is OT


If you are making a 7age you won't be swapping in a 4age as the lower end is 7a.
The 4a head and a few other items are needed.
Here is some info.
7age/5age info
I wouldn't bother with a six speed the celi c52 should work fine as Nik said earlier.


It's ok with this, but how is about using the 20v head? That was the question...I need something else? Then cluntch and gearbox are changeable? And the flywheel?
nik
#56
>
QUOTE (TiGZ461 @ Oct 28, 2009 - 11:22 PM) *
>nik did you ever try the 7a -ge in its stock form with no mods? Just wondering how much it puts down and if theres a big difference. Seems pretty neat, the more I read into it, and see how it looks the more I want it. Thats the head off a 4agze right? Did you keep the sc?


nope never drove it in an N/A form i started with 8.5 to 1 pistons but i did drive it at 5 psi for the break in and it felt torquer

there are loads of info on club4ag about the gains between the 4age to 7age and the 4age is about even with a 7afe (( apples and oranges))

but on paper better head flow with more displacement = more power
yea your 3sgte is cool but ill stick to my 7agte
nik
#57
this is my last reply on this topic

20v head will go on the 7a block no problem i have seen it done in person but the belt set up was different

20v and the 7afe flow the same way so this is a plus to running a 20 v head

timing is the biggest pain to set up right

you can mix and match the brackets from the 20v and 7afe to get all your accesories to work ( like the alt braket for example)

the best place to find more inof on this is >>club4ag.com>>

best of luck
yea your 3sgte is cool but ill stick to my 7agte
TiGZ461
#58
nik I know you said you wouldn't post on this topic again, but I was just wondering. If you could go back and choose to stay with the 4agte swap or a 3sgte which would you choose? Stock for stock, or all modded up like you had it.
1996 Toyota Celica ST 25th Anni. Edition #461
nik
#59
>
QUOTE (TiGZ461 @ Oct 31, 2009 - 3:07 AM) *
>nik I know you said you wouldn't post on this topic again, but I was just wondering. If you could go back and choose to stay with the 4agte swap or a 3sgte which would you choose? Stock for stock, or all modded up like you had it.


i have a 7agte 4agze head with a turbo and 7a bottom 1.8 liter

*one the 4age never came turbo stock but the 4agze came supercharged so taking that motor and putting a t3 turbo on it is about the same power as a 2nd gen 3sgte

at this point in my life if i could go back i wouldnt have done anything to be honest left it stock and drove it

dont get me wrong i love my 300 whp DD but as you grow older you want different things
yea your 3sgte is cool but ill stick to my 7agte
BonzaiCelica
#60
oh ok i see the difference know. the gt celica has two different weights becuase of the option abs brake system. so 2580 pounds for the celica dry or curb weight?? that clears up alot. finally i know the actual weight of the celica. what do you guys think the weight of a blacktop 4age vs a 7afe. And do you think the 3sge beams redtop is lighter than the 5sfe???

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 2, 2009 - 2:36 PM
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