i still think its the wiring, or something simple.

Patience is mandatory with problems like this. It's fun to overcome problems... I just haven't made any progress at all late. That takes all the fun out of it.

Noberto, I wish I still thought that. However, with the OCV unplugged and adding my own 12v power to it, that rules out any problems in my wiring. With the OCV back in the motor, I could hear it clicking but the idle never changed as it should have when I advanced or retarded the timing. My VVT controller is definitely locked up.

is there no way to test the vet controller from the graytop?
sorry if that's a stupid question
just seems like if the graytops works ok it would be easier(an cheaper) than getting a whole new swap

This thread needs moar JDMs.

Kurt- there kind of is. When the motor is off, a lock pin is supposed to engage. I can put 20 psi to the controller to disengage the pin, then twist the controller with a pair of needle nose pliers. I can do all that, but then all I know is that I have a VVT controller that can turn. The controller can't be serviced or fixed either. I could risk my Greytop controller working, but if it doesn't, I get to buy a new motor anyway. At this point, I'm even tired of the way this BEAMS looks. The exhaust heat shield had some rust when I got it, so I powdercoated that and dislike the results. The valve cover is a little faded and the intake manifold is scratched. Those aren't real issues, but I like to whine. Plus a 5 speed BEAMS swap has LSD. Win.

Andrew- it will have moar JDM very soon.

If you do another swap what the plans from there with the current beams? sell it or another parts motor or
swap into another celica

Probably sell certain parts, keep the rest for parts for the next BEAMS if we get another BEAMS. Otherwise, I'll just sell it all if we go 3S-GTE.

I searched VVT & VVTi. So call me clueless!!
Not understanding it hardly at all!!

Your patience & perseverance is in the Sainthood area!!!
Wish I could be so knowledgeable!!

the VVT controller operates off oil pressure.. its still entirely possible that filter is plugged not allowing the controller to change cam timing

I considered that but there's always a good amount of oil on the OCV. That, and insufficient oil pressure would leave the lock pin engaged, neither advancing nor retarding timing. My timing is definitely not standard.

Rob- Three months ago, I didn't understand VVT either. I learned a little bit each day and now that I understand it, it's actually a rather simple system. It's mostly mechanical, even. I couldn't explain it over the Internet very well but if I had the BEAMS in front of both of us, I could show you exactly how it works in 2 minutes or less.

^^^ instructional video

dude where's your stock beams intake. I thought you ordered that over a month ago!!??

It bought a plane ticket from Hong Kong to the United States and boarded the plane this morning

>
No video available, but here's a quick diagram and the nitty gritty dirty but (hopefully) easy to understand explanation of VVT-i.



Basically, VVT-i uses a few main sensors to determine RPM, load, etc. Mainly, it uses the crank and cam position sensors, as well as the TPS. The ECU interprets the signal of these and sends a signal to the oil control valve (OCV), commonly called the VVT solenoid or sensor though it's actually neither. This valve controls oil flow to the VVT-i controller on the cam shaft. If the OCV sends the oil one direction, timing is advanced. If it sends it the other direction, timing is retarded. Or it can maintain a certain position, maintaining timing and behaving as any other engine would.

One commonly made mistake about the BEAMS is that the VVT is on/off, and it's definitely on after 4,500 RPM. To be exact, this is VVT-i. The i is for intelligent, meaning the VVT is working 100% of the time, from startup to redline. When you start the engine, the timing is retarded. This produces an easier startup. When you go WOT, timing is advanced. The only reason for the 'kick' that the BEAMS produces at 4,500 RPM is because the motor has come into its power band. The VVT is already fully advanced before the revs get to 4,500.

The VVT-i controller on the cam shaft is the most expensive part of the system to replace. It cannot be taken apart and serviced or cleaned. Of course, a few brave people will still try, but I am not one of them. The issue with my BEAMS is that my VVT-i controller is seized in what I assume is advanced timing, since I have limited low end power and plenty of top end power. Also, the issue seems to be getting worse, as fuel mileage is going down. Our driving certainly hasn't changed, so the motor is drinking more fuel. 21 mpg from a lightly driven 2 liter BEAMS is pathetic, since my 3 liter 2JZ is pulling 23 mpg easily. I used to get over 30 mpg with the BEAMS, and now it's definitely down in the low 20's.

I do have a spare VVT-i controller from my Greytop that I could put on my Redtop, but if I do, I will change the timing belt, oil pump, and water pump. Doing some quick shopping tells me that I will be into that project $440 plus my time and hassle to pull the motor out. And the rather large gamble of if the VVT controller from the Greytop is any good. When it isn't on the motor, I can put 20 psi of air to it and take a pair of needle nose pliers and theoretically, I should be able to turn it. However, that doesn't actually tell me if it's functional or not. Why potentially waste nearly $500 plus my time when I'm looking into some other engine sets that have enough extras to make them worth my while? LSD transmission, OEM intake as a spare to the one I already have on the way here, SS-III two pot brakes, some even with the BEAMS gauge cluster. And I can part out my current engine or sell the swap as a whole with my spare VVT controller and recoup some cash. Yes, I would still spend more money for a new BEAMS than I would if the spare VVT controller works, but there's no way I could get all of the extras for the money over what I would spend for a new motor set after selling a few things. Plus if I can be bothered to pull this motor out, I can't be bothered to put it back in. I've had enough frustration with it, it's time to move on to different parts of the car. The motor work will be finished very soon and we will be moving on to body work.

good info this should be moved to the 3sge/acis/beams discussion thread please...

That's similar to 1 I found. Everything I read about it tells *what* it does but not *how*
Sooo-- with my ignorance, I was guessing it works like an A/C clutch, allowing the timing belt to
engage // disengage at certain RPMs, but your description is easier to follow...

Sorry, don't want to become a "Thread Jack".

after reading just about evrything again, I bet your timimg belt skipped a tooth.

Thanks BonzaiCelica. Like I said, it's a quick and dirty explanation, written after a long day at work so I might have missed something. Feel free to quote me in that thread though, or just use the information I posted over there or anywhere else.

Rob- yes, it's almost exactly like an a/c clutch. The outside VVT controller is fixed to the timing belt while the center section can rotate forwards or backwards independently from the outside.

Dustin- I'll do my best to check the timing this weekend, but it will more than likely be next week before I can get around to it. I should have some days off soon.

come down here, ill let u use my ecu and vvti sensor... to test.

I'm fairly confident that my ECU is good now, and both of my VVT sensors are in perfect working order. Besides, when I tested my VVT, I had the VVT solenoid unplugged so the ECU had no influence on VVT operation whatsoever. I'm sending several parts from my Greytop to Turnip then probably getting rid of it. I've already got my eyes on two specific Redtops. One I've already mentioned several times, the other is just a basic 5 speed swap with no frills but the price is right and so far, I've had a very positive experience with this importer. I'm getting a lot of overtime this week and I'm already close to getting the new motor, so hopefully next week I'll order it and get it in the car before Christmas.

>
other way around
at idle the intake is advanced to give a smoothier idle (less/no exhaust intake cam overlap)
WOT/high rpms the intake is retarted to improve flow (high exhaust/ intake cam overlap)
also from what I've read, vvti only works up to 6,000rpm on the BEAMS engines, though I'm not too sure how true this is.

here's the points/settings for a dual vvti, so just remove any points regarding exhaust cam movement for the redtop/greytop

I stand corrected. I've never heard that VVT doesn't work after 6k. I'm definitely going to look into that. I've got the basics down but I've still got a lot to learn.

This post has been edited by richee3: Dec 5, 2011 - 3:36 PM

Nice !
let me know how it works out, also where you got it from and how much, I just may need one.

I just got it in from Vincent_Doggy. It cost $180 shipped but as I said, if I pick up the right BEAMS next week, I'll have a complete OEM intake and MAF as a spare that I'll be willing to let go for less than what I just paid for this lid. I believe Vince has another lid on his Kamikaze site though.

Might as well sell my SARD now. I originally intended to keep it just in case, but I'll probably just keep my OEM intake.

hehe the answer to everyone's problem who says they don't have an oem intake

nice job!!

i just paid for mine

Definitive proof, as if we didn't all know it by now, but a BEAMS OEM intake can be made by simply adding the BEAMS lid. It is now 100% confirmed. Went right on with no issues at all.

So far, I've only let the car idle with the OEM intake. No noticeable difference, apart from being quieter. Brigette has only got a handful of miles in with it, maybe 20 at this point, but she's about to make a 40 mile trek to my house. I'll ask when she gets here and see if she's noticed any difference, though we both anticipate the answer to be no. I just wonder if she's been paying attention to the AFR's since the OEM intake was put on or if the gauge pod is just a collection of pretty lights.

Bonzai- There's no issue with a car that money can't fix! I realized last night that counting my MAF sensors, I've got around $700 invested in just the intake alone for this BEAMS. $300 for the SARD, $200 for the OEM lid/OEM filter, $160 for both MAF's, and $70 for the Weapon-R intake I started with. Yet, all told, I've still only invested a little over $2,400 in the things that are currently under the hood. Not bad for a complete Redtop swap, if you overlook my bad luck with the now-defunct VVT controller. Keep in mind that I've replaced every sensor in that cost, as well as wasted money here and there on various tidbits like extra spark plugs. I could have kept the cost under $2k if I hadn't wasted money here and there. Of course, my cost is about to double, but I'm ignoring that and pretending like it isn't happening.

Noberto- No intake yet? I figured you'd have gotten yours the same day I got mine.

I've been thinking about the SS-III brakes I could be potentially getting in the next few weeks. I assume I can follow Stevenson's guide to fitting GT4 brakes, as both the GT4 and SS-III brakes mount up to SS suspension. But more importantly, we still have the stock 15" wheels on the car. I'm assuming I'm going to have clearance issues there, correct? I hate to say it, but the brakes might have to be put on hold for a while. I'm most concerned with the engine itself, and hopefully it has a rear mount. As Chris remembers, we replaced a fubar'd motor mount with a mostly fubar'd mount, so I might end up ordering a new one. I should definitely have whatever engine set I get in the car before Christmas. LSD for Christmas? Yes please.

Edit: Just asked her, she can't tell any difference in how the car is running at all. I haven't driven it for myself, but I don't expect any changes either. But hey, at least I've got that bit out of the way. The engine bay looks cleaner and neater with the OEM intake there too.

This post has been edited by richee3: Dec 6, 2011 - 6:36 PM

can't wait to see that red gem in your ride next spring

well you never stop learning, I'd also be interested in finding out the movement points over a rev range, and see how much of the 43degree it actually uses, or the use of the camcom (vvt controller)


nice to see you got the airbox lid sorted and fits your bottom half


as for the SS-III twin pot brakes, they should swap over, I had a feeling the SS-II and SS-III twin pot brakes had slighly different part numbers, but they're the same (unless they've changed stuff on toyodiy?)