Hey guys figured this would get your panties in a bunch.... I read this article in the Q&A section of Import tuner magazine earlier this year or sometime last year. I almost unsubscribed after this.
DISCUSS!
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_1206_...stions_answers/
QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
Sounds like he knows nothing about the 3S... I'm sure if he said 2JZ, dude would have been more technical.
1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager
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QUOTE (RabidTRD @ Dec 9, 2013 - 8:38 PM)
>Sounds like he knows nothing about the 3S... I'm sure if he said 2JZ, dude would have been more technical.
exactly! but for someone with all his skill and knowhow you would think he would have been able to complile something better than what a 16 year old would say
QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
lol, a longitudinal 3s? it has been made before, with a w58 and adapter plate, on a 76 celica and other cars i cant remember, difficult. lol no... he is a moron.
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
What a dumb fùck... Then again what else would you expect from the people of a tuner magazine? They're too busy wanking off to SR20DET's, 2JZ-GTE's, and 4G63's.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
woot woot box had an input, hey box, now i want a subaru
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
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QUOTE (Box @ Dec 10, 2013 - 1:10 AM)
>They're too busy wanking off to . . . 2JZ-GTE's . . .
I do the same thing.
This dude just wanted some attention. Ran his mouth without doing any research. I'd bet still to this day he hasn't learned a thing about the 3S, and I doubt if he ever will until somebody he knows starts playing with one.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
Hey may have went overboard, but for he's not exactly wrong. Hell of a lot easier with little to gain. I know all about doing retarded swaps, but its up to the individual and for your average person probably not a good move. Especially a car that you're going to actually race.
Is the 3s better, yeah; is it worth it probably not.
This post has been edited by czwalga: Dec 10, 2013 - 11:05 AM
-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.
^^^Thats the angle my pal took saying that Eric was saying its not worth it to swap in a 240 when there are better options, but to me, he went WAY too far comparing the two. In all reality the SR20 is a piece of crap compared to the 3s. I see people having WAY more problems with the SR than a 3s. And as far as racing I so happned to race an sr20 swapped sentra that was slightly modded, and it ended VERY badly for him. they dont hold a candle to the 3s
QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
The 3SGTE needs no help from us to defend its honor... WRC in various Celicas, JGTCC in various Supras... BUT....the 3SGTE platform is expensive. You can make gobs of power with this engine. But that power is not off the shelf - nor is it readily (read: easily) available to the unwashed masses. The aftermarket support for this engine sucks... you have 3 options, complete **** from china ($), very good parts ($$$$) or OE/TTE Parts ($$$$$). AND - Most of the Group A (rally) spec Engine parts have been all gobbled up or are stratospherically priced. As someone who is building a 3SGTE with simple upgrades and OE parts, I could have a VERY nasty Subaru motor. And don't get me started with what I could have in a V8 Ford with the kind of money I am dumping into my modest build...
Yeah he said it full of snark and vitriol, he's a fan-boy, I guess I'm not surprised. To paraphrase, "He's not wrong, he's just an asshole. "
This post has been edited by qatar11: Dec 10, 2013 - 7:16 PM
-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.
Also, after re-reading the article... the kid wants to drop it into a S13.... that's explains some of the knee jerk, "are you nuts" sentiment. I don't see any upside in dropping a 3SGTE into a Nissan... that's a brand of crazy reserved for professional masochists.. also, I am firmly in the no "cross pollination" camp of auto building.
-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:20 PM)
>Also, after re-reading the article... the kid wants to drop it into a S13.... that's explains some of the knee jerk, "are you nuts" sentiment. I don't see any upside in dropping a 3SGTE into a Nissan... that's a brand of crazy reserved for professional masochists.. also, I am firmly in the no "cross pollination" camp of auto building.
BOOOOOOO
-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.
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QUOTE (czwalga @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:14 PM)
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:20 PM)
>Also, after re-reading the article... the kid wants to drop it into a S13.... that's explains some of the knee jerk, "are you nuts" sentiment. I don't see any upside in dropping a 3SGTE into a Nissan... that's a brand of crazy reserved for professional masochists.. also, I am firmly in the no "cross pollination" camp of auto building.
BOOOOOOO
Sorry Brah
-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:41 PM)
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QUOTE (czwalga @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:14 PM)
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:20 PM)
>Also, after re-reading the article... the kid wants to drop it into a S13.... that's explains some of the knee jerk, "are you nuts" sentiment. I don't see any upside in dropping a 3SGTE into a Nissan... that's a brand of crazy reserved for professional masochists.. also, I am firmly in the no "cross pollination" camp of auto building.
BOOOOOOO
Sorry Brah
A cars a car man... no brand loyalty. That way you can get the best of everything.
-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.
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QUOTE (czwalga @ Dec 11, 2013 - 7:12 AM)
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:41 PM)
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QUOTE (czwalga @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:14 PM)
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 8:20 PM)
>Also, after re-reading the article... the kid wants to drop it into a S13.... that's explains some of the knee jerk, "are you nuts" sentiment. I don't see any upside in dropping a 3SGTE into a Nissan... that's a brand of crazy reserved for professional masochists.. also, I am firmly in the no "cross pollination" camp of auto building.
BOOOOOOO
Sorry Brah
A cars a car man... no brand loyalty. That way you can get the best of everything.
agree with this... I find people put down the 3sgte becuse they simply have very little understanding of it and experience with it and are afraid of working with it, the lack of parts is also a big factor most people just want off the shelf goodies!.
I'm sure nobody took into consideration the slant that a FW/4W 3S sits on that the oil wont drain and sit properly in the sump when upright that a altezza beams top half sump will have to be sourced
Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs
Besides that he's completely corrected in his opinions FOR THIS APPLICATION....and that it is stupid to put a 3S into a Nissan as there are MANY better options..........
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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 9, 2013 - 8:07 PM)
>lol, a longitudinal 3s? it has been made before, with a w58 and adapter plate, on a 76 celica and other cars i cant remember, difficult. lol no... he is a moron.
Top secret supra 3sgte longitude making 700+ whp
This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 12, 2013 - 8:37 AM
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QUOTE (playr158 @ Dec 12, 2013 - 8:30 AM)
>Top secret supra 3sgte longitude making 700+ whp
3SGTE in a Supra is so choice... if you have the means, I highly recommend one
Grand Turismo 3 Intro
This post has been edited by qatar11: Dec 12, 2013 - 9:20 AM
-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.
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QUOTE (qatar11 @ Dec 12, 2013 - 9:19 AM)
>3SGTE in a Supra is so choice... if you have the means, I highly recommend one
Grand Turismo 3 IntroI remember playing the then-new gran turismo 1 and thinking that it surely must be a typo on the in game spec sheet. When I learned that the castrol car did in fact have a 4 cylinder engine, I was fascinated. That choice in that car affects my own preferences to this day.
On topic, the Hsu guy... brash and maybe hasty but he's more or less providing sound advice. No reason to be offended.
yeah my friend put it into perspective as some of you did (as far as the platform is concerned) I was so butthurt I didnt really care to consider it lol. not many of us out there so to see that mess pissed me off lol.
and yes Eric Hsu does seem a bit brash
QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
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QUOTE (easternpiro1 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 7:54 PM)
>^^^Thats the angle my pal took saying that Eric was saying its not worth it to swap in a 240 when there are better options, but to me, he went WAY too far comparing the two. In all reality the SR20 is a piece of crap compared to the 3s. I see people having WAY more problems with the SR than a 3s. And as far as racing I so happned to race an sr20 swapped sentra that was slightly modded, and it ended VERY badly for him. they dont hold a candle to the 3s
So was this sentra a DET swapped SR or a n/a bolt on?
Being an owner of both 3SGTE and SR20DET/VE/VET, I wouldn't say one is more reliable that the other. Clearly this is a bias forum, but from my perspective Eric is correct.
LS1 & T-56
Problem solved.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
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QUOTE (Box @ Dec 15, 2013 - 2:10 AM)
>LS1 & T-56
Problem solved.
Sounds like a boat. I'll pass, thanks!
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QUOTE (sentraman @ Dec 13, 2013 - 7:47 PM)
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QUOTE (easternpiro1 @ Dec 10, 2013 - 7:54 PM)
>^^^Thats the angle my pal took saying that Eric was saying its not worth it to swap in a 240 when there are better options, but to me, he went WAY too far comparing the two. In all reality the SR20 is a piece of crap compared to the 3s. I see people having WAY more problems with the SR than a 3s. And as far as racing I so happned to race an sr20 swapped sentra that was slightly modded, and it ended VERY badly for him. they dont hold a candle to the 3s
So was this sentra a DET swapped SR or a n/a bolt on?
Being an owner of both 3SGTE and SR20DET/VE/VET, I wouldn't say one is more reliable that the other. Clearly this is a bias forum, but from my perspective Eric is correct.
It was a Sentra DET swapped with minor upgrades. so you think Eric is correct in general that the SR is a better motor? or his perspective on platform?
QUOTE (Galcobar @ Oct 15, 2008 - 2:44 AM)You want power but have no money. That's a problem.Cheap. Reliable. Fast. Pick two.
why would you compare apples and oranges?!
Beacuse why compare apples to apples, they both taste the same, and so do oranges, you can make OJ
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
I see some point to what this guys said, but I don't agree with a lot of it. I think the guy should swap a 3s, quit reading import tuner trash, and see what happens when the rubber meets the road. I'd love to see a "heavy" cast iron block beat the **** out of an SR. I would imagine having a little extra weight in the front would be advantageous in a drift vehicle. As for the differences
Cast Iron is stronger
3s Valvetrain is better
Stock turbo is better
The use of a timing belt over a chain in a non-interference set up is advantageous (runs smoother)
Tuning by Yamaha is more aggressive and better
I see the coil on plug in the sr as a big advantage, but this is also doable in the 3s
The sr is dime a dozen for a reason...they've become disposable motors
The 3s is expensive for a reason...it's the $hit.
I'm going to disagree with your belt vs chain arguement, as chain is better for higher RPMS, more durable and less maintenance....sooo if you're going to drift a chain is safer than a belt. Chains are less likely to jump teeth, shred parts and are more rugid. Belts are rip/tear/shred and require replacing.
3s is expensive for a reason......cause nobody keeps them around except a select few. not because its the ****; no supply cause no demand.
Not to mention they only came in 2 cars......from the 1990s (or earlier) in the US.
Cast iron is stronger can also be argued as the 3s has a tendancy to crack blocks and run a cylinder lean. A sleeved aluminum block that is properly tuned is just as good if not better....Tell me when you last saw a cast iron block in a supercar?
saying better with no real information is weaksauce
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QUOTE (playr158 @ Dec 26, 2013 - 1:02 PM)
>I'm going to disagree with your belt vs chain arguement, as chain is better for higher RPMS, more durable and less maintenance....sooo if you're going to drift a chain is safer than a belt. Chains are less likely to jump teeth, shred parts and are more rugid. Belts are rip/tear/shred and require replacing.
3s is expensive for a reason......cause nobody keeps them around except a select few. not because its the ****; no supply cause no demand.
Not to mention they only came in 2 cars......from the 1990s (or earlier) in the US.
Cast iron is stronger can also be argued as the 3s has a tendancy to crack blocks and run a cylinder lean. A sleeved aluminum block that is properly tuned is just as good if not better....Tell me when you last saw a cast iron block in a supercar?
saying better with no real information is weaksauce
Just because I feel like throwing my hat in the ring, the primary reason supercars use aluminum engines is because they're aluminum...
We're talking about manufacturers that charge a $25,000+ premium for a 50 pound weight savings if I'm not mistaken. They use aluminum because they are looking to save every single gram of weight on the car, and this essentially means the blueprint is aluminum block, and carbon fiber everything else.
Everything else you've covered can be argued back and forth to death.
This post has been edited by cardshark525: Dec 26, 2013 - 9:34 PM
