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Gathering Info for 7A-FE Rebuild - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #93334 51 posts Started by msk59
msk59
#1
Hello All: I am getting ready to rebuild the head and change the piston rings on my 1996 7A-FE ST hatchback. I spoke to the local dealer and they gave me price on the parts. I also have Rock Auto's price as well and there is a difference in price but quality is unknown to me, although i have heard good stuff about Rock Auto:

So here are my questions:

Rebuild gasket set : Dealer or Aftermarket (if Aftermarket then which brand)
Piston Rings: Dealer or Aftermarket (if Aftermarket then which brand)

Valve Seats/covers etc: Dealer or Aftermarket (if Aftermarket then which brand)

Head Bolts: Dealer or Aftermarket (if Aftermarket then which brand)


All you gurus out there, please provide your input


Thank You all in advance.
msk59
#3
Oh Yes, I have read/watched that one many times.
Box
#4
Hmm, only thing I'd know to say is to find the service manual as it'll have everything you'll need to know and more.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
msk59
#5
Box thanks. I got one off eBay earlier this week so i am set to go. House is full of guests so I took Monday off and will start the work hopefully Sunday night or Monday.
Bitter
#6
I'd use dealer for the important parts, like the head gasket and the head bolts, but bearings are fine aftermarket and so are the rest of the gaskets.
2000 Celica GTS 'slowest gts evar'1998 Mazda 626 FS-DE/CD4-E
Box
#7
If you get Timken or Nachi bearings and races, odds are they were the OEM supplier to begin with.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
msk59
#8
Thank You all for the input and advise. I got the tear down started. Taking pictures as i go along. So far I have taken the intake apart, exhaust out and the cams are out. Overall two day progress. i am taking my time as too much to absorb and learn.

Intake Manifold was full of crud and carbon. 99% of EGR holes were plugged. I am surprised how this car ran all this time. Took all day to get those clean.

Earlier tonight, i focused on the head. So far both cams came out as I followed the Factory Service Manual. Now the head bolts. Will deal with them tomorrow. The manual says to get the SST. I read somewhere here that other sockets would work.

Oh and I ordered the parts from local Toyota dealer. They are offering me 20% discount.
Box
#9
Yeah that's the one downside to EGR, coats the top end of the motor in gunk. My current car came without EGR from the factory, hooray. tongue.gif
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
Smaay
#10
do not get gaskets from rockauto or ebay. Get the OEM rebuild kit. Just ask yourself, do you want to do this all over again?

also check your cylinders for roundness, and proper size. I spent the extra money and had the cylinders bored .020 over and got the oversized pistons. I used aftermarket pistons and rings. no problems there. You will have to heat up the piston to get the wrist pin in. Its not a floater like the 5S.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jul 30, 2014 - 8:04 AM
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
msk59
#11
Oh Yes! I remember you giving the same advice to someone else here so that is what I did. I ordered engine rebuild kit from my local dealer. 20% off the retail.

Thank You Smaay.
msk59
#12
I started pullilng the head and cylinders out: So far:

1; Intake and Exhasut out and cleaned; (Intake were about 90% filled with carbon and gunk)

2: Head and cams out (all labelled and ready to go to shop for rebuild)

3: Both Oil-pans are out. Everything is orange in color (LOL);

I will pull the pistons out tonight and will order the new rings sets. Dont know whether I should go with one over or standard.
Special_Edy
#13
You will need to measure the bores. Just take it to a shop and let them determine if you need the cylinders honed out or overbored with oversize pistons and rings. They will have to hone them at the very least, something you could do but I wouldnt suggest it.
msk59
#14
Edy: I have some help from a few experienced folks.

Took the pistons out. They were not too bad but the oil ring was completly clogged, including the holes in the piston were plugged as well. So thoroughly cleaned the pistons last night.

Cylinders do not look too bad. There are some shinnig areas especially towards the front and back where the piston sides rub against the cylinder walls. Hatch marks are visible elsewhere.

Placed one of the old rings back in the cylinder block to check the gap (per the FSM) and it is more than the recommended so the rings will be replaced. Question is should I go once size over or install standard rings?

Next i will measure the bores. The engine is still in the car so I cannot take it to a mechanic.

The C-Rods bearings were all fine except #4 which is bad so all bearings will be replaced. Crank still looks shining except on the 4 cylinder where it would need to be polished again. I think it can be done in the car.

Anything else I would need to do?

This post has been edited by msk59: Jul 31, 2014 - 11:06 AM
Special_Edy
#15
Replace the rear main seal and the front crankshaft seal. Make sure the taper of the bores is within spec, this is what determines the hone vs overbore. As you noticed it will tend to become wider at the top and bottom in the directions the crank rotates.
The valves, rings and rod bearings are typically the only high wear items.

Double check all the crank and rod bearings with plastigauge. Its only a couple dollars a package. You may need an oversize bearing for #4, just measure with calipers or plastigauge a normal bearing in it.

I would suggest pricing a shop turning the #4 rod journal, your never going to get it perfectly straight and round polishing by hand.
msk59
#16
Edy: thank you for the input.

CRANK SEALS: In regards to front and rear seal, the engine block is still in the car. I did not pull the whole engine out. Front seal was recently replaced when I replaced the timing belt.

PISTON/RINGS: I have marked all the pistons and corresponding connecting rod and bearings. I plan on taking those to dealer to get the exact replacement bearings (Per the manual) I have to replace it by the same number. At the same time I will order the rings (standard). The plan is to buy the standard and use a ring to see if it is within specs, if not then I will get one size over. (Please let me know if this is the way to go)

CRANK BEARINGS: I have not open the crank caps yet to see what conditions of the crank shaft bearing (that is next).

SEARCH FOR MICROMETER: Last night we went to rent the tool to measure the innerbore but Sears (who makes one) did not have one nor did the Autozone or Advance Auto. I will check other AUTO stores in town.

I will get the plastigauge tonight.

This post has been edited by msk59: Aug 1, 2014 - 8:27 AM
msk59
#17
Hello all: I need help setting the timing on my 7AFE engine from 1996 celica ST. I installed the head back by following the factory manual. The cams have been installed and they are fine. the manual says to check the marks on the cam pulley But there are no marks on the pulley that the book suggests. What should I do at this point. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Box
#18
It's possible the cam gears are on backwards.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
msk59
#19
No I am talking about the pulley on which the belt is mounted. The cam gears are installed correctly. as I can see both installation marks and the timing marks. and they align perfectly.

Do I need to remove the crank pulley and timing belt cover to setup the timing?

This post has been edited by msk59: Aug 10, 2014 - 4:26 PM
Box
#20
All the marks you need should be on the crank pulley and cam gears.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
msk59
#21
Box thanks. It appears to be that everything is lining up now. See I replaced the rings, honed the cylinder. Head work was done by a shop. The dealer short changed me on three different gaskits so I have to call them today to get those replaced.

In regards to the timing, all the marks are lining up at this time, so I will see if it fires up.

Any advice on which oil to use to break in?

Smaay
#22
use plain 10W30 oil. do NOT use synthetic!
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
msk59
#23
Smaay. Do I need to add zinc in it? someone at the local shop suggested it.
Special_Edy
#24
You can buy break in oil.

Run the motor at 2000rpm for twenty minutes upon initial start up, then change the oil. Some people have suggestions for breaking in the rings, usually its either baby it for 500-1000 miles or run it real hard a few times to seat the rings.
Put moly lube(or "assembly lube") on on the moving parts when you put the motor back together, and some light oil on the cylinder walls. Just enough to film the bores with of motor oil or bar/chain oil if you have it.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Aug 11, 2014 - 1:20 PM
Smaay
#25
>
QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Aug 11, 2014 - 11:17 AM) *
>You can buy break in oil.

Run the motor at 2000rpm for twenty minutes upon initial start up, then change the oil. Some people have suggestions for breaking in the rings, usually its either baby it for 500-1000 miles or run it real hard a few times to seat the rings.
Put moly lube(or "assembly lube") on on the moving parts when you put the motor back together, and some light oil on the cylinder walls. Just enough to film the bores with of motor oil or bar/chain oil if you have it.


no that is the worst thing to do. you drive it hard, hammer down till about 5000 RPM, then let off to about 2000, then hammer down till 5000 again. This will seat the rings good and properly.

when assembling do not use moly lube. use assembly lube.
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
msk59
#26
Thank You very much Smaay. I did and am using assembly lube. Everything is going back as it should. New OEM Headbolts, all headwork done by local Head shop (they only do head work and have very good reputation). New OEM rings.

My main purpose of the rebuld was to bring it back to stock. So no major upgrades except I am thinking of adding an oil cooler.
Box
#27
Oil cooler would be a great idea, and should reduce the chances of the 7A becoming an oil burner again.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
Special_Edy
#28
Does the 7AFE have a stock oil cooler? The 5SFE does. It's at the base of the oil filter and utilizes coolant(the coolant is ~50-100 degrees cooler than oil).

The 2000 rpm is to seat the bearings and valvetrain

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Aug 11, 2014 - 4:06 PM
Tort1llaboy
#29
>
QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Aug 11, 2014 - 4:05 PM) *
>Does the 7AFE have a stock oil cooler? The 5SFE does. It's at the base of the oil filter and utilizes coolant(the coolant is ~50-100 degrees cooler than oil).

The 2000 rpm is to seat the bearings and valvetrain

yea it deos have a stock oil cooler smile.gif
Box
#30
Strange, mine didn't have one and it was OE. Could be a regional or yearly thing.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
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