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Not getting fuel 3sgte - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #39080 91 posts Started by jcbass7
ok ny meet is today so ill test all of this tommorrow ASAP

thanks a bunch gusy ill keep you posted
actualy, i made things a lil more complicated than they really are

first step would be to just turn the key to the ign position and have a helping hand check for the relay "click"

then proceed with the complicated stuff

----------------------6GC's FIRST V6----------------------JDM 96 MR2-T Faster - 94 Celica GT 3MZFE Funner - 99 Rav 4 AWD Handy
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QUOTE(jcbass7 @ Jul 14, 2006 - 10:02 PM) [snapback]456223[/snapback]
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ok

1. the check engine light is not on. and does not come on at all when keys are in

2. cheked fuse connections and interior connections they appear fine

3. there IS power at the bk-yellow wire ad the bottom of the fuse box (there were two a big and a small but getting 12 volt on both)

4. there IS power to the bk-orange wire at BOTH the coil and ignitor


Is this the wire you checked in number 3? (It may be black/yellow or black/red):

IPB Image

That's the one you need to check for 12v with the key to on. Also, with the key off, check for resistance (continuity) between this wire, +B in the diagnostic terminal, and +B at the ECU, which is at the end of the 22-pin connector, and is either black/red or black/yellow (it should match the color of the wire in the fusebox).

Then we'll go from there. Shoot me an email when you get back on Sunday and if I can I'll give you a call.

-Doc

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
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QUOTE(Dr_Tweak @ Jul 15, 2006 - 7:31 AM) [snapback]456442[/snapback]
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Is this the wire you checked in number 3? (It may be black/yellow or black/red):

IPB Image

-Doc




I was incorrect in my test before,

the black/yellow taht you show above^ is NOT getting any power wkhen the key is in the ON postiion or at all for that matter
also i tried Art's suggestion with jumping batt to Fp and that worked to supply power to the pump to test that section of wiring etc.

have you tried what I suggested?

cause from your diagnotics i'm positive your EFI circuit is not working

edit: your focus should not be on the fuel pump but on finding why the EFI circuit is not getting power

Your ignition switch is supose to turn on that circuit, you said the black-orange for the injectors is getting power so your problem is from the "ign 7.5A" fuse down to the EFI relay.

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Jul 16, 2006 - 4:10 PM

----------------------6GC's FIRST V6----------------------JDM 96 MR2-T Faster - 94 Celica GT 3MZFE Funner - 99 Rav 4 AWD Handy
K-ESD is correct, there's nothing wrong with the fuel pump circut, so just put that out of your head.

Number one, like K-ESD said, have someone put their finger on the EFI main relay and feel if it clicks when you switch the key to the one position. If it does not click, then check the 7.5 amp IGN fuse and make sure it's okay. Then remove it, switch the key to on, and check to make sure that you're getting 12v from one of the pins that it went to.

If you DO get a click from the EFI main relay, then check the 15 amp EFI fuse, and then check to see if you're getting power at the pink wire that goes to the bottom of the relay. This wire should have power all the time, even with the key off. Also check continuity between the white/black wire and a good ground to make sure that there is a low resistance.

*edit* I just PMd you my phone number, give me a call.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 16, 2006 - 4:38 PM

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
yes i understand that the problem is not the fuel circuit, that is just the symptom of the EFI problem



ok i pulled the efi relay and tested it and it clicks

the 15 amp fuse was blown when i checked it today, but i replaced it and it didn't solve much, since it was fine before.... but i also checked the pink while i was there and the pink wire is not getting power at any time..
EDIT: I just went out to double check the pink wire for the 15amp fuse, and the 15 amp itself was blown. I then checked and i am getting 12v from it. I'm not sure how it blew though

i double checked the EFI main and it clicks upon turning the key etc.
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QUOTE(jcbass7 @ Jul 17, 2006 - 1:17 AM) [snapback]457004[/snapback]
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EDIT: I just went out to double check the pink wire for the 15amp fuse, and the 15 amp itself was blown. I then checked and i am getting 12v from it. I'm not sure how it blew though

i double checked the EFI main and it clicks upon turning the key etc.


So, did you replace the fuse? Do you get power from the pink wire when the fuse is good? Or are you saying that every time you turn the key to on the fuse blows?

PM me your number again and I'll call you in about 1/2 an hour.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 16, 2006 - 8:25 PM

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
you're getting closer
relay works so you can move down the circuit.

Doc should be able to guide you from here, you're on the right track

Good luck smile.gif

----------------------6GC's FIRST V6----------------------JDM 96 MR2-T Faster - 94 Celica GT 3MZFE Funner - 99 Rav 4 AWD Handy
i'm going to have to buy more fuses and test it tommorrow to see when exactly the fuse blows, etc.

ill be around mid-day tommorrow working on the car


sent you a pm with my #
ok here is the update...

the 15amp fuse blows everytime the key is put to the"on" position




thats basically it


now i just need to find out why it is frying
OK with tweaks help i have made progress (for anyone who wants to know: here is the update)


the 15 amp fuse blowing was due to either a short or something with the boost controller (stock thing) anyway i broke it a while back and just pushed the broken peice back on and should have left it unplugged.

That was creating the issue,

now i crank the engine and recieve these two error codes if i am not mistaken


14 and 22


whicch are

14 - IGN No "IGF" signal to ECU 8-11 times Check Igniter, ignition coil

22 - WTR Open or short in Water Temp Sensor Check Water Temp Sensor



I am assuming that the 14 code is why the engine won't fire?


This post has been edited by jcbass7: Jul 17, 2006 - 6:24 PM
Hmm this is odd.

Yes, code 14 will cause the engine to not start. Double-check that you have power at the ignitor and the coil. I take it you're not getting any spark, right?

The water temp sensor is a little wierd too. Is it plugged in right? Here's a copy of the pinout for the 3SGTE engine:

IPB Image

It appears my server is down right now, it should be up before long. Anyway, check for continuity (low resistance) between the brown wire at the coolant temp sensor (it's the one towards the end of the upper radiator hose housing) and ground, then between the red wire and the red wire at pin THW at the ECU.

Also check for continuity between IGT at the ignitor (white) and IGT at the ECU, along with IGF (black/yellow) and IGF at the ECU.

Lastly, what year is the ECU you are running, what is the part number, and does which year set in the above pinout does your harness match?

-Doc

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
check your harness plug that goes to the ignitor.

i had this same issue after my swap, and so did another guy who was just doing a 5sfe-5sfe swap. the problem is that the harness plug is not making good contact at one of the connectors. i think on mine it was the blue and white wire. also, doubble check that you are getting power from the main black and orange wire that feeds the coil.

Edit: it also gave me code 14

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 8:20 PM

15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 6:03 PM) [snapback]457427[/snapback]
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check your harness plug that goes to the ignitor.

i had this same issue after my swap, and so did another guy who was just doing a 5sfe-5sfe swap. the problem is that the harness plug is not making good contact at one of the connectors. i think on mine it was the blue and white wire. also, doubble check that you are getting power from the main black and orange wire that feeds the coil.

Edit: it also gave me code 14

Same here - that was my plug mistake on my swap. (it'll try to start for a couple cranks, then nothing)

Tweak has some good places to debug there, so you'll figure this out soon enough.

-Charlie

PS. I told you to leave the turbo VSV unplugged until after the motor started! laugh.gif

2003 Subaru WRX Wagon1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid1988 Camry Alltrac LE - BEAMS swap started
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QUOTE(phattyduck @ Jul 17, 2006 - 8:33 PM) [snapback]457435[/snapback]
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Same here - that was my plug mistake on my swap. (it'll try to start for a couple cranks, then nothing)

Tweak has some good places to debug there, so you'll figure this out soon enough.

-Charlie

PS. I told you to leave the turbo VSV unplugged until after the motor started! laugh.gif




cwm13.gif i guess i should pay more attention tongue.gif


oh boy, atleast im learning a lot!


I'll try all of those things above^^ tommorrow morning when the sun comes up wink.gif


IPB Image


I'm going to have to draw a diagram of this.. my ecu plugs do not match either set-ep.. well let me explain



the 16 pin connecter matches the plug on the bottom diagram (91-alltrac) well the colors don't all match but the layout does.


the 22 pin is missing the 13 spot and the 4 spot wires


the 26 pin..

has wires in the

1 2 3 4 5 6 X X 9 10 11 12 13
14 X X 17 18 X 20 X X 23 24 25 26






the ecu should be froma 93 all trac JDM

here are the numbers

3SGT

89661-2B280
175000-4812
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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 8:03 PM) [snapback]457427[/snapback]
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check your harness plug that goes to the ignitor.

i had this same issue after my swap, and so did another guy who was just doing a 5sfe-5sfe swap. the problem is that the harness plug is not making good contact at one of the connectors. i think on mine it was the blue and white wire. also, doubble check that you are getting power from the main black and orange wire that feeds the coil.

Edit: it also gave me code 14




I am getting power at the black and orange wire
Your ECU is definitely form a 92-93 celica.

Looking at some of your older posts it looks like you didn't buy a clip.
What are the part numbers for your ignitor and coil? They are not the same between 90/91 and 92/93 and may be the cause of your code 14.

Ignitor part number should be 89621-12050 for the 92/93 3SGTE.
Coil part number should be 90919-02197 for the 92/93 3SGTE.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Jul 18, 2006 - 3:00 PM

Project ST204.5 99.88946% complete...
correct i did not buy a clip (mistake) but i actually couldn't pass the deal up on the engine and car i got together


ill go check the ignitor and coil right now


EDIT: those numbers match

so this means i DEFINTALY have a 92-93 all trac motor and parts etc.?

I was told its a 93 and i gues its checking out so far

This post has been edited by jcbass7: Jul 18, 2006 - 2:20 PM
Okay, ECU is correct, the are you sure that the 16-pin connector doesn't match the top one in the diagram? Are you looking at the connectors the right way? The two missing pins on the 22-pin plug are fine.

And you still need to do this:

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QUOTE
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Anyway, check for continuity (low resistance) between the brown wire at the coolant temp sensor (it's the one towards the end of the upper radiator hose housing) and ground, then between the red wire and the red wire at pin THW at the ECU.

Also check for continuity between IGT at the ignitor (white) and IGT at the ECU, along with IGF (black/yellow) and IGF at the ECU.

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
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QUOTE(jcbass7 @ Jul 18, 2006 - 2:14 PM) [snapback]457801[/snapback]
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correct i did not buy a clip (mistake) but i actually couldn't pass the deal up on the engine and car i got together

ill go check the ignitor and coil right now

EDIT: those numbers match
so this means i DEFINTALY have a 92-93 all trac motor and parts etc.?
I was told its a 93 and i gues its checking out so far


Yup, it's a gen.2 rev.2 3SGTE. The problem must be in the wiring somewhere. Doc should be able to figure it out though.

Project ST204.5 99.88946% complete...
how about the 26 pin...

should that have pins in the 23 even though its a 93 ?

Ill check all three plugs and continuity tommorrow morning


thanks guys

JC
Ok this diagram shows EXACTLY what my wiring looks like going into the ECU

if anyone needs colors for wires ill post that too


Doc you are right i was not noticing the 16th pin missing in the 16 pin connector

IPB Image



Now Doc had me check continuity and here are the results


1. between brown wire and ground = low resistance (close to 0)
2. between red wire and THW at ECU = No reading at all (needle didn't move or show any signs of anything)
3. between white (igniter) and IGT at ECU = low resistance
4. between BK/Yellow (Igniter) and IGF at ECU = low resistance


ok thats basically where i am now

This post has been edited by jcbass7: Jul 19, 2006 - 1:34 PM
Okay well the THW is an odd one, there must be a break in the wire somewhere. You'll have to search it out and see where the break is and repair it.

It looks like the IGT and IGF circuts are normal. Check to see if you have a voltage reading between IGT and E1 while cranking the engine. You should get about 1 volt. Also, you should be using a digital multimeter.

Then check for voltage between IGT and a body ground while cranking.

-Doc


-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
ok so this is a bit weird



i thought i might check the codes again to see if they were still present.

first code 22 constant

then i remember the igniter is unplugged, hook it in and jump the diagnostics again


now i get code 12, and 22


14 dissapeared..


12 from what ive found is a problem with the starter/distrubter?

PS:

if the top electrical connection was severed from the starter, would this give me code 12?

12 - RPM No "G" signal to ECU for 2 sec after crank Starting related, check distributor, starter
ok well im almost positive code 12 is because the top electrical connection is severed.. or is now, on the starter. When dropping it in my friend broke the connection off of the starter but not completly. now its completly off and im getting code 12. Is there a way to fix it?

it doesn't look very easy to repair, maybe i should buy a new starter.

will the starter off of the st185 awd tranny fit? or how about the one from a manual ST?


I'm also going to assume that since i have code 12, the 14 isn't showing up due to the code 12. once i fix the started 14 will show up again?
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QUOTE(jcbass7 @ Jul 19, 2006 - 11:06 PM) [snapback]458282[/snapback]
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ok well im almost positive code 12 is because the top electrical connection is severed.. or is now, on the starter. When dropping it in my friend broke the connection off of the starter but not completly. now its completly off and im getting code 12. Is there a way to fix it?

it doesn't look very easy to repair, maybe i should buy a new starter.

will the starter off of the st185 awd tranny fit? or how about the one from a manual ST?


I'm also going to assume that since i have code 12, the 14 isn't showing up due to the code 12. once i fix the started 14 will show up again?


Off the top of the starter? No, that shouldn't have anything to do with it... that code showed up because you forgot to plug in the ignitor. Clear the codes by pulling the EFI fuse for a minute, and run them again. Then attempt to start it again and then run the codes if it doesn't start.

The ST185 starter will work, but the connector is different. The ST one will not.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 19, 2006 - 6:52 PM

-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com