bump for help.

Oddly enough, no vac diagrams exist for the 3sgte (at least none that I have found).
This is one of those times where you have to take a lot of pictures and hope that the really nice 6gc community remembers all your past good deeds and comes through and helps you out.

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true.... maybe they will.. and accept my apologies for arguments in the past.. and hope they are forgiving.. but yea im at the shop now.. ill get some pics today

right now it starts.. when step on the gas.. it spudders out at precisely 2000 rpm.. then idles unstable

I know where all the vac lines go...but on a wrc there are a bunch more that are just in the way and could be your problem.

put up some pics of what you need advise on and I can direct you, also the wiring is very important with the FP and IC/pump.

might as well check the compression on that motor when you have a chance.

I have plugged every vac line there is.. but im still getting this same response from the car.. once the car is warm.. it idles unstable.. and I still cant go past 2000 rpm.. what could be the soultion? is it my wiring? i ran the blue fuel pump power wire to a ground.. and joined 2 connector grounds together from the smallest and 2nd biggest connectors together.. maybe i wired wrong? because my engine starts when i barely turn the key.. could this also be a reason for my problem?

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Seeing as how I know nothing and spread false information (according to you), the blue wire going to the fuel pump should get power (assuming we are talking about the same wire) not ground.
Go look at the wiring diagram. The COR sends power to a thick blue wire--through the fuel pump relay-- into your interior plug-- and all the way back to the fuel pump.

The fuel pump relay should be removed (cut off the wires, join all 3 blue ones together), as its just a low/high switch and wont work correctly without properly adding in the resistor pack (not worth doing).

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 9, 2009 - 9:34 AM

ok I will try that.. and btw I never said you spread false information.. I was just unsure to how much knowledge you ahd with 3rd gen engines.. im quite sure all the 2ng gen information you give is 100% accurate as Ive read many of your posts in those topics.. also with fuel systems also (your thread on how to wire walboro fuel pumps properly) Im not here to question anyones knowledge.. nor should anyone else.. we should really end all this bickering (batman, Jim, me , lagos) its geting us no where.

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Everyone swallows the humble pill when they are in the middle of a project and need help. You did "call me out" and did claim that i spread false info. But luckly I'm a nice guy who really doesn't take this internet stuff to seriously and tends to help more people than i can remember get their swaps running because i know what its like to be in the middle of it with no one to turn to.

All this "i dont know how much you know about THE 3RD GEN" stuff is silly. There has been all this bs hype going around about having 3rd gens or wrc versions or what not. The truth is that these things are 95% the same 3sgte that everyone else has. Sure a few things evolved slightly over the years, but its still the same motor. If you know one, you know the other. Trust me, I worked on all three generations... its all the same sh1t. One has a map sensor, the other an afm. Big deal.

true.. guess this is all a learning expreince.. well what i just did 5 mins ago.. the thick blue power wire.. i spliced it and ran it all the way to the battery just to see if there would be a difference.. but its still doing the same thing.. revs to 2 rpm then engine shakes and and drops back down and idles unstable.. this makes no sense at all.

You need to make sure that the blue wire you are connecting to the battery is the one that goes to one the 3 "interior" plugs that connect above the ecu. Hook it up to the battery, but dont start the car. You should be able to hear the fuel pump come on, and hear fuel running through the rail and feel it through the send/return lines.

After that, you have to make sure that your map sensor is plugged in and hooked up to a vac line, along with your air temp sensor in the intake. Then make sure the igniter is connected and bolted to the firewall (it gets its ground that way) and check that the harness plug is hooked up to the back of the distributor. Oh and your fuel injector resistor pack (looks like a big heat sink) needs to be plugged in.

If the car is still acting funny, jump the diagnostic box with a paper clip connecting the te and e1 terminals. Turn your key to the on position and count the blinking lights.

There is also a intake manifold ground wire that people normally miss. Its part of your engine harness and you have to get under the car and bolt it to the back of the intake manifold with a 12 or 14mm bolt.

omg 3rd gen, wrc!... heh, its all the same sh1t.

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 9, 2009 - 10:33 AM

great will do man! should reply with what happens in like 10 to 20

well i did everything.. still the same crap.. maybe my timing belt needs adjustment..

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Did you replace the timing belt before putting the motor in?
Did you line up the crank and the cam gears with the valve cover off when doing the belt?
When you hooked up the battery wire to the fuel pump, did you hear the pump come on and feel/hear fuel through the rail?
Do you have any ecu codes?

Last 3s I worked on wouldn't start at all because my friend put the belt on wrong. And even after I fixed the belt, we had to unbolt the distributor and rotate it by hand to get the car to hold idle. But this was on a brand new rebuild, and after it broke in for a while it idled fine with the correct timing.

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naw i didnt replace the timing belt.. bc im a reall newb at that and timing is an serious issue so i didnt want 2 f up.. naw i dont recall hearing anything with the fuel pump and/or fuel rail.. but it DID start up once i wired the fuel pump wire to the battery.. im just gna run some relays.. batman called me up and explained some things.. gna try it out.. i will let u guys know what happens

Mike, glad we talked today, call me again when you get the relays.

jim, seriously, give it a rest.
your not the only person whos ever had or worked on a WRC, in fact, dustin did help with your swap, in case you forgot, your car wouldnt have ran without dustin. (D and steff did the wiring on your car)
so lets just leave it at that, and try and stay on the topic of helping mike here, and leave the personal jabs and whatnot off the board.

You could have just deleted the nonsense and left it at that....or then wrote me and DB a PM telling us to stop the crap, or even called if you felt like. There was no need to delete the BS, then solely call me out on it....But I guess it is what it is.

said my peace...gl mike with getting it running perfect.

This post has been edited by supershannon77: Oct 10, 2009 - 2:37 AM

The fued between the blue beasts

This post has been edited by Nartanian: Oct 9, 2009 - 5:12 PM

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there is no fued.. so stop trying to stir things up. Like I said before I hope these differences can be squashed soon.. its pointless.. and NO im not saying this bc I need help so dont even write that (you know who you are) the fact of the matter is we all have celicas.. some of us want to do swaps.. some of us would like more information on how to do it.. some people have the "go research like I did" attitude.

If you want to help the community.. or so you say.. then how about showing people how you did your swap.. because in the end.. people will STILL need to do the swap on their own.. its not doing other peoples homework.. doing other people's homework is actually going and doing the swap for them. Even if you show exactly how you did it.. step by step.. bolt by bolt.. wire by wire.. theres no way in hell a swap can be done in a day.. you are just making life easier for others who also want power, and to be honest.. hiding how you did a swap is soo very selfish.. and implies that you want people to suffer just as you did.. which is such a wrong mindset with cars.. and life in general

Jim and Batman, you guys both have succesful running swaps.. you guys should be good friends IMO.. Id say instead of taking shots at one another.. you all should help each other learn new things.. and ultimately post the best damn "how to swap a 3rd gen on the internet" I will pitch in and help once i get mines running

Lagos.. I dont understand why you think people here are bashing you or trying to bash bc of 2nd gen.. 3rd gen crap.. I DONT CALL YOU OUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A 2ND GEN!! I dont understand why thats so hard to understand. Like i said before there had been some posts you made on 3rd gen issues that werent really the right answer.. so I just wondered if you infact had credible knowledge on 3rd gen motors.. the only reason we got heated was because you called me a cheerleader.. which anyone will get heated about. There are certain things you can get away with on a 2nd gen that you cant with 3rd gen..

Take for instance the fuel wiring setup.. you had told me to join the blue wires together.. Batman later told me that wont fly with the 3rd gen because of a different fuel setup. Its not about which gen is more powerful.. its about what you can do as far as setting up the different generation motors.. and Ill say again.. Im not here to bash you because you have a 2nd gen motor.. I DO NOT CARE. Im here to get information and share new information to others who are new and need information.. thats what 6gc should be about IMO.. but i duno that may be just me.

So yea im done talking about this also like shannon said.. we all need to just work out these petty differences and help each other out.. because everyone can learn something new.. no matter how long youve been driving a car.. theres always something new to learn.

well said!

did you get it running well?

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lol, im not sure what it is that dustin told you, but what i told you to do is based on the 3rd gen wiring diagrams that were posted in this very thread. He was probably trying to tell you to avoid doing all that, by just installing the extra relay box that the st205 uses, which you didn't mention having. I was giving you a solution. However if you doubt my advice, I wont bother typing it out next time.

This gen this gen that stuff is about the dumbest thing I've seen on these boards.

I dont have a extra st205 fuel pump relay box.. im making a custom 1. and you cannot just join all 3 wires together because the st205 motor does not run properly if a specific amount of fuel isnt given at a specific time.. thus the reason i need to make a relay that dictates how much fuel is being sent.. again im not trying to bash.. just letting you know some things wont fly with the 205 motor.

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Wow so the 3rd gen really is a totally new and different setup than every car on earth, since normally relays only supply a constant power to the fuel pump and have nothing to do with regulating fuel delivery to the engine (besides the low/high mode by reducing voltage to 9v at idle through the fuel pump resistor pack to reduce electrical strain on the car, present on both the 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors).
Normally fuel deliver is handled by the fuel injectors that get powered through the injector resistor pack and receive a pulsating ground from the ecu that makes them operated at a specific duty cycle based on load information from the map sensor (3d gen specific!!!!) and throttle position sensor in order to correct "send a specific amount of fuel at a specific time".

But the 3rd gen does all that through the fuel pump wiring, huh? Yeah your right, some things just dont fly.

PS. I have no idea what blue wires you are personally looking at. My advice was to send power from the COR, directly to the wire that ends up going to plug IJ1 pin 4.

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 10, 2009 - 1:21 AM

Update!! How's everything going?

well.. im thinking one of my sensors is bad.. going to run some diagnostics.. curerntly.. it now revs to 3000 rpm before stalling out.. i dont think its a fuel issue anymore.. its either a vacuum leak or a bad sensor.. my ignition mite be retarded.

ok another update.. its reving higher and higher everytime I hit the throttle.. im gna go ahead and install the exhaust system now.. the downpipe is spitting fire.. perhaps the swap is near complete? doubt it.. expecting another problem.. stay tuned.

exhaust wont do anything...i have been running an open downpipe for 4+ months now with no problems...just likes to boost creep a little...exhaust is next for my car as well

hope it works out, but i would still advise to get a walbro in there asap

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what would you know! the 3rd gen does things differently!

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yea i here ya.. im hoping the ST205 fuel pump can hold its own until i can get one

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lol come on dude.. this isnt a 2nd gen 3rd gen battle