Gosh... I was just saying... Lol what ever
Smaay ! V6 vs. Beams - 6G Celicas Forums
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The Saab Viggen made 252 ft lb at 2,500 RPM with a turbo 2.3 I4. That's about the only one the comes to mind at the moment though.
This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 3:03 PM
QUOTE (Smaay @ Sep 25, 2013 - 12:37 PM) 
>here is my dyno again. im making 215 ft lbs of TQ at 2500 RPMs.
you will never see results like that in a 4 banger N/A and i even doubt it boosted.
you will never see results like that in a 4 banger N/A and i even doubt it boosted.
The Saab Viggen made 252 ft lb at 2,500 RPM with a turbo 2.3 I4. That's about the only one the comes to mind at the moment though.
This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 3:03 PM
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
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That's what it felt like. Dustin may have to correct me on this if I'm wrong though. It's not like a VTEC system at all and feels much more refined and consistent. VTEC feels like an underpowered car with a turbo strapped on that is too big and has a lot of turbo lag.
QUOTE (ILoveMySilly97 @ Sep 25, 2013 - 2:02 PM)
>^So the beams engine. The vvti is not set to switch on at a certain rpm but depends on how much gas you're putting into it? Meaning the vvti can be activated at a low rpm like 2500 and also can be revved at high rpm like 5000 without the vvti activated?
That's what it felt like. Dustin may have to correct me on this if I'm wrong though. It's not like a VTEC system at all and feels much more refined and consistent. VTEC feels like an underpowered car with a turbo strapped on that is too big and has a lot of turbo lag.
1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager
FTO is a 2.0 liter v6 engine thats why SS-III beats it.
stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me
with my beams the gears are just where i like them
and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.
smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha
This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:00 PM
stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me
with my beams the gears are just where i like them
and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.
smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha
This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:00 PM
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
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No those numbers are from the full 3mz running a stock 1mz ecu I do beleave
Don't think the hybrid made it to the dyno
QUOTE (BonzaiCelica @ Sep 25, 2013 - 5:14 PM)
>FTO is a 2.0 liter v6 engine thats why SS-III beats it.
stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me
with my beams the gears are just where i like them
and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.
smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha
stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me
with my beams the gears are just where i like them
and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.
smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha
No those numbers are from the full 3mz running a stock 1mz ecu I do beleave
Don't think the hybrid made it to the dyno
95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's94 st hatch my daily driverhttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235n
Smaay, you're diluting facts.
First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.
I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.
No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.
The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.
Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.
Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.
You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.
First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.
I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.
No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.
The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.
Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.
Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.
You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.
my st205 swapandour Beams swap
I'm still going to run a BEAMS when I can afford it. I've already got the suspension where I want it, exhaust is good. I have a Tanabe Medallion G-Power long-tube header that's designed for the 3S-GE sitting on my shelf next to me, waiting to be installed, but I might just wait until I get the BEAMS.
I need a swap personally that is simply plug and play. The BEAMS is that. It's more cost effective, and time efficient. I have only one vehicle. I would take a week off of work to install it, figure out the bugs and get it ready to be run long term. I don't have many months and a second car to use while figuring out all the BS I'd have to deal with in the 1MZ.
In my mind, the BEAMS is far superior, that's why I'm really curious to see how this match up goes.
...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.
I need a swap personally that is simply plug and play. The BEAMS is that. It's more cost effective, and time efficient. I have only one vehicle. I would take a week off of work to install it, figure out the bugs and get it ready to be run long term. I don't have many months and a second car to use while figuring out all the BS I'd have to deal with in the 1MZ.
In my mind, the BEAMS is far superior, that's why I'm really curious to see how this match up goes.
...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.
1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager
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didnt you guys read my first post. im using an un opened right off the shelf 3MZ. i took off the 3MZ intake manifold and put on my 1MZ manifold. Im using a stock 2002 Solara ECU. i have never used an aftermarket ECU.
I got the engine with harness for 700, ECU was 100, clutch disk would be something like 60-100. and wiring i could have done myself, i am an electrical engineer, im just lazy and didnt have the time.
so right there i could have done this swap for about 1000 bucks.
I chose to do extra things like E153, fidanza Flywheel, and a few misc things.
the passenger mount i did fab up myself which can be duplicated.
QUOTE (BonzaiCelica @ Sep 25, 2013 - 2:14 PM)
>and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.
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QUOTE (Batman722 @ Sep 25, 2013 - 3:13 PM)
>Smaay, you're diluting facts.
First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.
I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.
No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.
The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.
Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.
Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.
You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.
First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.
I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.
No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.
The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.
Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.
Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.
You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.
didnt you guys read my first post. im using an un opened right off the shelf 3MZ. i took off the 3MZ intake manifold and put on my 1MZ manifold. Im using a stock 2002 Solara ECU. i have never used an aftermarket ECU.
I got the engine with harness for 700, ECU was 100, clutch disk would be something like 60-100. and wiring i could have done myself, i am an electrical engineer, im just lazy and didnt have the time.
so right there i could have done this swap for about 1000 bucks.
I chose to do extra things like E153, fidanza Flywheel, and a few misc things.
the passenger mount i did fab up myself which can be duplicated.
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
edit;
its like swapping a 2nd gen 3sgte today, when the 3rd gens are so easy to get..
its like swapping a 2nd gen 3sgte today, when the 3rd gens are so easy to get..
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
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The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.
This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:11 PM
QUOTE (RabidTRD @ Sep 25, 2013 - 6:02 PM)
>...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.
The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.
This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:11 PM
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
Not to say I have a problem with 4-cylinders as an engine. I'd totally take a SS-III or GT-Four, it'd just have the world's quietest exhaust system.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
are chocobos I4 V6 or V8
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
Parallel 2.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
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and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Sep 25, 2013 - 4:29 PM)
>IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
I'm not getting involved in an argument in any way, shape, or form, but I do want to share my opinion here. First things first: Ken, VVT-i on the BEAMS, 1MZ, and virtually all if not every new Toyota engine is constantly "on" and constantly adjusting from the moment you turn the key until the moment you kill the engine. It's not set to any specific timing at any specific RPM. It changes depending on throttle position, load, speed, etc. It's not to be confused with Honda's VTEC, Lift on the 2ZZ engine, or even the older VVT (not VVT-i) of the 4A-GE which are all sort of "on" and "off" in a way.
Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.
Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.
Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.
Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
^^^^^ well said sir!
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
>
Lol what was the cost of a second gen 10 years ago. Ton of wiring and custom stuff to be made. But people did it regArdless the cost.
Its called innovation. 10 years into the future its called old news. Old tech. Never said it was easy. But its the only worth swap id do. Sorry old news are old news. 1mzs belong in soccer vans, to carry bunch of kids and gatorade to football practice.
Not offending anyone. But its time to move on and accept the future.
Is anyone still using the iphone 3s. I have a 5 now.
Oh and i forgot... Its not personal. Its business....
QUOTE (Smaay @ Sep 26, 2013 - 8:02 AM)
>>
and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Sep 25, 2013 - 4:29 PM)
>IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.
But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.
The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.
10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.
But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.
and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.
Lol what was the cost of a second gen 10 years ago. Ton of wiring and custom stuff to be made. But people did it regArdless the cost.
Its called innovation. 10 years into the future its called old news. Old tech. Never said it was easy. But its the only worth swap id do. Sorry old news are old news. 1mzs belong in soccer vans, to carry bunch of kids and gatorade to football practice.
Not offending anyone. But its time to move on and accept the future.
Is anyone still using the iphone 3s. I have a 5 now.
Oh and i forgot... Its not personal. Its business....
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
Why don't we let the numbers speak for themselves. I'd like to see some 1/4 track times for BOTH engines...Modded and stock...
Numbers? Where we going we dont need numbers...
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
Except for the 1.21 gigawatts to get there.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
Would be nice to have a track time averages page. That way we could average them all together for ALL of the swaps, and have it listed on a sweet sexy spread sheet.
Did someone say sexy spread sheet?
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
faawwwwk yea!!!
I need my velvet smoking jacket, I shall return.
2001 Miata LS 5-speed
I tought it was a yellow chocobo jacket....
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
>
ding ding ding....ladies, and gentelmen, we have a winner.
/thread.
QUOTE (richee3 @ Sep 26, 2013 - 9:30 AM)
>I'm not getting involved in an argument in any way, shape, or form, but I do want to share my opinion here. First things first: Ken, VVT-i on the BEAMS, 1MZ, and virtually all if not every new Toyota engine is constantly "on" and constantly adjusting from the moment you turn the key until the moment you kill the engine. It's not set to any specific timing at any specific RPM. It changes depending on throttle position, load, speed, etc. It's not to be confused with Honda's VTEC, Lift on the 2ZZ engine, or even the older VVT (not VVT-i) of the 4A-GE which are all sort of "on" and "off" in a way.
Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.
Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.
Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.
Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.
ding ding ding....ladies, and gentelmen, we have a winner.
/thread.
Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered
Forgot to mention- Ted, that header will not fit the BEAMS, if that's what you meant by waiting until you get one. The BEAMS comes with a factory header, which is actually a good design. Toyota put some welds inside the header and a few people have chose to grind those down for minimal gains, but otherwise there are only one or two headers actually designed for the BEAMS and I haven't ever found one for sale.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
>
yea okay!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA
QUOTE (Box @ Sep 25, 2013 - 9:10 PM)
>>
The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.
QUOTE (RabidTRD @ Sep 25, 2013 - 6:02 PM)
>...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.
The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.
yea okay!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
That sounds terrible IMO. I really don't like the sound of Honda engines.
>
Why won't it? Isn't the 3S-GE the same head as the beams? Just with different internals?
>
QUOTE (richee3 @ Sep 26, 2013 - 6:32 PM)
>Forgot to mention- Ted, that header will not fit the BEAMS, if that's what you meant by waiting until you get one. The BEAMS comes with a factory header, which is actually a good design. Toyota put some welds inside the header and a few people have chose to grind those down for minimal gains, but otherwise there are only one or two headers actually designed for the BEAMS and I haven't ever found one for sale.
Why won't it? Isn't the 3S-GE the same head as the beams? Just with different internals?
1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager