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Thanks for proving my point.

how does that sound terrible it sounds like a race car no rasp? you American!



This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 26, 2013 - 10:47 PM

Sounds like a bumble bee with gas.

Quick question: Isn't the VVT-i on the BEAMS engine exclusively change the exhaust cam timing?

How is that beneficial at all, aside from better-controlled emissions?

It varies only the intake timing.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 27, 2013 - 5:52 AM

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The head on the BEAMS is actually totally different. The intake and exhaust ports are in a different location and different shape, internals are totally different, etc. The head on the BEAMS is exclusive and it will outflow any other head Toyota ever made and even outflow a Honda S2000 head.


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The Redtop and Greytop use intake cam enabled VVT-i, same as any newer engine. The Blacktop used dual VVT-i on both the intake and exhaust cam, and that's where the exhaust valve timing really only affected emissions.

Then you have VVTL-i that varies both the lift and duration for both the intake and exhaust, such as in the 2ZZ-GE.

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Blah....


Only 4 cylinders that sound good are boxers. Subaru's Porsche's. thats it. I'm embarrased for the sound of my rally car.

The 2ZZ was still only intake cam enabled.

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im not diluting facts, and the fact that you have such bad information makes your point moot! Im running a 3MZ with no DBW, and saying a 2GR would kill our cars is a VERY VERY poor statement. please enlighten me how a 275 HP engine will "KILL" our car?

there are TONS of 350+ HP 6th gens out there. they are not dead?

next time you want to bash my facts, have something to back it up.

Great, 6GC is back up and priority #1, more drama in this thread

The facts I believe you're diluting were cost and ease of the swap, as I stated clearly.

You're running a 1m manifold, throttle body, and electronics with a 3m bottom end to avoid the DBW, we're aware.
That goes along with the the cost and ease statements - so if someone was swapping a 3m would you recommend they getting parts from a 1m also ? Gotta buy more parts to make it work ? Why not just run the full 3m parts and wiring ? Why mix and match ? I would think that using the parts that came with the motor would be less expensive than sourcing parts from another motor. I know it was easier for you because you just swapped the bottom end of your original 1m set up, right ? But for the average person...not cheap and easy. Not everyone has the resources you do. Cost and ease.

Facts to back it up.
My 95 st205 swap. My chassis was tearing itself apart. I made 300 ftlbs of torque (at high RPM) and my 18 year old chassis wasn't keeping up.
I can only speak from my experience and what I've seen on other Celicas. I live in the northeast and winters take their toll. Someone who lives and has a car in the southern part of the US (or Cali) probably doesn't have to be too concerned about this yet but in my part of the world, we do. I parted my 205 swap because many of the seams were starting to get rusted, rotted, cracked, and overstresed from wear and tear. It was something I monitored for years in my car. If I had a 5s and daily drove it it would of lasted a lot longer. There is no doubt that the hp and more importantly the torque is what accelerated the death of my chassis. I see it on a lot of Celicas.
Now you're big thing is huge torque at low rpms, right ? Lot's a lot of torque in daily driving situations to help kill the chassis. People who build great motor set ups with high hp and torque know the additional stress that get put on the chassis and they super strengthen them up for this reason. You'd be hard pressed to find a Celica without stress issues, and even if you do, it has issues and you wouldn't even know until it's too late.

I'm not going to stir the pot at all here.

Dustin and I were conversating about this Saturday night. I believe that in my heart of hearts, the NEXT time around, the swap can be done around $1000-$1300. I'm into it way more than that this time around (you wouldn't believe all the stupid little crap that pops up here and there when doing a swap). I also spent money to try and develop some parts to make the swap truly bolt-in (such as a custom passenger axle for s54 guys that is being tested in a 98 GT right now with some success, I think I may need it to be about 1/8" longer though).

The point is, we all love these damn cars, and everyone has a preference. Me, I prefer torque off idle. doesn't make me a bad person (well, maybe the handle of Jagermeister that motivated me to make the memes does lol). What started out as a funny joke caused 6gc to asplode with torque, rev, and red paint.

I'm just going to leave this here....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2366728359/...51884034358360/

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thats true you are in the car cancer section of the world. Its nice living in a climate that you dont have to worry about rust.

Yes in my swap you do need to buy a few extra parts. if you search properly, you can attain those fairly cheap. If you were to go plain 1MZ, which is my next project, it will still be cheaper. I already have the engine but i just did a search and i can find complete 1MZ with harness and ECU for $635. ill need a hybrid clutch disk. and build another pass mount and Y pipe. so im going to do this swap for just about 1000 bucks.

I just pulled this list from the BEAMS owners website.

-Roman;97001+

im sorry but for the cost of the swap and the results, i flat out dont see the justification. the top 2 must be boosted. but after that the high is 180 HP and the low 140 HP. so that puts the average in at 160. Sure its an improvement over the 5S and 7A. And the BEAMS does have a cool factor. Ill give it that. Its just personally, i dont see the gains justifying the cost.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Sep 30, 2013 - 11:41 AM

Don't even care about this anymore lol
My last thoughts on this.
Yes I put an economy motor in my car
But I'd bet my Avalon motor hasn't been ran as hard in the 140k its been in a car as a beams with the same milage.

Both are great swaps it all depends on what you like.
Honestly if you haven't rode in a v6 celica stfu because you don't know how the motor is in a celica. Saying of I drove a v6 Camry.
Yea let's throw a beams in a camry with a autotragic trans an see how sporty it feels.
I took mine to a meet this weekend that was hosted by celicatech
Had a guy with a st165 riding with me that said theres Noway his altrac could keep up with my 1mz an a guy fallowing with a 4gen swapped altrac that swears I was pulling on him in 3rd gear an kept pulling till my tail lights came on.
So I'm now fully aware of what my car can do.
Will it beat a 3s swapped 2wd....no not a chance.
Will it keep up with a beams....yes
Will it out run a beams....yes if your running it 100% stock electronics...speed cut must suck for you guys.
Will it beat one in a quarter mile....maybe its really gonna come down to the drivers.
There's really nothing to compare between the 2 motors
If you truly like the beams you probably won't like the 1mz
If you truly like the 1mz you probably won't like the beams as much.

Your beams if amazing Dustin. You'll never hear me say otherwise.
If you didn't tell me I'd think your car was 100% stock. Feel just like a celica should feel.....stock.
But I didn't spend all my time an money just to have my celica feel stock. I wanted something that I could baby around town an get decent mpg but blow the tires apart with a tap of the throttle. But didn't want a turbo. My 1mz gives me just that. Feels just like a 5s with small light throttle inputs. But smash it to the floor an the tires start to scream an the exhaust starts to sing a song that normally can only be heard in high end exotic cars.

That is what I wanted an that is what I built.
I built it to be different an it worked.
If it catches on an more being do it cool. If not...cool.
I did it for me. I realize that now.
Random ranting an rambling over

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Here are the cam specs for the 2ZZ-GE:


Now if you meant timing only that'd be the case.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 30, 2013 - 3:02 PM

i'd love to have a 1mz or 2gr in a celica that being said its not comparable lol. your comparing a v6 with 1000cc more displacement to a 4 cylinder engine, not amount of valve lift, valve timing technology is gonna make a 2L have the torque of a 3L of the same era. the 90% torque at 2,000 rpm would be fun on the streets, i drove a 5spd 1mzfe camry years back and loved it, well it wasnt able to make much use of that torque around corners but regardless it was fun.

aside from my late iac issues i've beaten the heck out of my beams 3sge and its delivered everytime, i even over heated it once due to a burst coolant line, got the temp to 3/4 twice due to a failed radiator cap at the track and a weak fuel pump causing lean initial throttle. my 3sge has taken all these pretty well. so i guess this is what i care about and think about when i rate an engine. no point in an engine making more hp/tq if you cant use it or it cant last long. and i dont doubt the v6's in fact my next sw20 build might have one in it.

This post has been edited by rdyzz: Sep 30, 2013 - 4:33 PM

I'd consider a red-top BEAMS, found a few that had the engine, ECU, harness, and transmission for $1,300. Either way they're both better than the econobox Corolla and Camry engines that came in the car originally. As long as you're making an improvement to the car then I don't really see the issue at hand, it just becomes a matter of personal preference. We should be concentrating this energy towards hating on Hondas.

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best post in this dumbass thread.

comparing a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm, and a I4 that makes 90% of its power above 4500rpm is really stupid, imo.
it really is all about how the individual wants the car to feel, and drive.
the best way to find out which setup is for you is to seek out someone who has whatever setup your interested in, and drive it, or at least ride in it.

if 5-600$ diffrence between one setup or the other is the determining factor on a swap, you shouldnt be swapping, period.

if your doing a swap because someone told you one setup is better than another, you should be swapping, period.

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Yea I'm the smartest dumbass lol

I'm not jumping in on the debate cause I love my husband and I am proud of the work we have done on the v6 and at some point I would love for my 7a to be a beams. But the biggest kick I've gotten in a while is to know he's the smartest dumbass....lol

The trophy is already in the mail.

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Sweet!!

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Aaaaah. I want V6! >>(or diesel )>>

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Manny ... Lets carve this quote to the stone for next generations. That is exactly why not much people get why I do with car things I do . Why I paid for custom build turbine, why it rented dyno for whole day to have map that meets my expectation...

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Obviously... Because it does redline at 5k lol jk

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Kurt says nope 6200

Well fuel cut is at 6200 lol
My first gear lives near there most days lol

something i want to make real clear here. This is a friendly debate over a choice in engines. I am not attacking anyone personally or tried to, nor have i taken any difference of opinion personally. Sure disagreements can get heated, but i want everyone to know, nothing is personal. With that said, time for some funnies.

I challenge anyone to make better ones.












This post has been edited by Smaay: Oct 1, 2013 - 12:55 PM

Love the last one
Any car meme that uses that lil boys pic is instantly funny lol